Boosted Legal Aid!

by **ELXR_96** » January 5th, 2010, 3:44 pm

Ok i got a summons to court for quote "The defendant at Ballarat on 20/10/2009 did drive a motor vehicle on a highway namely Latrobe street carelessly"
Usually the summons contains a history or conversation that went on between police officer and defendant etc. But no mine has non. Just has the charge and the usual legal stuff.
Who thinks i can get out of loosing my licence? Any ideas or info from people who have been in the same situation?

by **t1MMy** » January 5th, 2010, 3:48 pm

Depends on your history.

What actually happened?

by **ELXR_96** » January 5th, 2010, 4:05 pm

Well i was like dragging this guy.. loosing

and came sideways around a corner at like 11 at night on a week night.
The only car happened to be a cop coming towards me.
He yelled at me and just knocked off so couldn't be bothered impounding me just sent me that.
As for history i got done nearly 2 years ago for a burnout in my ea. Got it impounded. Got off cause the judge liked me and said i don't have a record. But who knows.
But how will they know what happened if he didn't write anything up? Everyone else i know who has ever got a summons has had a write up with it? Correct me if i'm wrong but aren't the meant to?

by **Gozza** » January 5th, 2010, 4:17 pm

For starters you got caught doing something to warrant the summons
Secondly what are you going to say to them? " Yeah i was caught being a dick but he didn't write it down so that cancels it out"
Or will you say you did nothing at all? Either way you have been summoned

by **ELXR_96** » January 5th, 2010, 4:24 pm

I know i did it and not saying i didn't... My question is does it matter that they didn't write it up?

by **Gozza** » January 5th, 2010, 4:27 pm

Well they wrote down you were driving carelessly. I would assume that is what you will be responding to

by **t1MMy** » January 5th, 2010, 4:32 pm

No. It doesn't matter that he didn't write it down. You just have to fight the charge. Good luck.

by **ELXR_96** » January 5th, 2010, 4:43 pm

Sick as thanks for nothing lol

by **LOW_XR** » January 5th, 2010, 4:53 pm

dude you fucked up. deal with it. dont bother fighting you did the wrong thing.

by **ELXR_96** » January 5th, 2010, 4:56 pm

I never said i didn't! I just asked for some advice but looks like i fucked up doing that to so please just delete the thread. Waste of time

by **Dansedgli** » January 5th, 2010, 5:15 pm

Quick somebody call the whaaambulance!

by **ELXR_96** » January 5th, 2010, 5:29 pm

You better bring 2 because i'm a fair sooky lala!

by **Rollin** » January 5th, 2010, 5:42 pm

You people are no help at all.

ELXR, I can't remember exactly what the order of events is, but when you go to court you should ask to see the 'brief' beforehand. The brief is what the police officer has written down as your actions on the night, and what the Prosecutor will read it out to the judge.

You'll be asked to stand and what your plea is.

If you agree with what has been written (and chances are you won't, because it will most likely be a small amount of truth with an epic amount of bullshit piled in on top, I've seen it first hand on more than one occasion) then plead guilty. I can't remember if you get to state your version of events if you plead guilty, I think you do, so you'll get to give your story and the judge will then decide how hard to ream you based on your and the prosecutors' stories.

The absolute best thing you can do is talk to a lawyer who specialises in traffic infringements.

This will be good for three reasons:

a) The lawyer will be able to state your case in the best possible light.

b) It takes the pressure and stress off you because there is somebody there on your side who knows what is going on.

c) The judge will take into account the fact that you have a lawyer there, which shows him that you are taking the charge, the law and the legal system very seriously (which is the point of the whole affair) and also they appreciate the amount of money it cost you to have a lawyer present, so the fine will be lower than you otherwise would have received.

A couple of other things:

Dress well - a suit if you have one, black shoes, dark coloured tie etc

Get a haircut and have a shave before you go to court. If you are well presented it helps separate you from the rest of the dickheads that will be in court with you on the day, it gives the impression that you are a fine upstanding citizen and less likely to be a hoon menace of society. It also shows you have respect for the judge and the courts, which reduces the amount you will be fisted by a small amount.

Ask the lawyer how you should address the judge (I believe they currently like to be called "Your Worship") and how you should act, and what will happen in the court room so you are prepared and less nervous.

Good luck

by **ELXR_96** » January 5th, 2010, 6:20 pm

Thanks very much! That's about everything i could need i guess.
Cheers!

by **bushman** » January 5th, 2010, 7:32 pm

I agree with Rollin, on the appearance side of thing and with getting a lawyer dont be deterred buy the cost it will be worth while, my lawyer when i when to court was $200 per hr, $750 just to go to court and i had two 1 1/2hr appointments got expensive quick. but definatly worth it.

by **ELXR_96** » January 5th, 2010, 7:58 pm

Shit.... I'd rather nearly just take 6 months loss of licence then pay that kind of coin..

by **nstg8a** » January 5th, 2010, 9:03 pm

ELXR_96 wrote:Shit.... I'd rather nearly just take 6 months loss of licence then pay that kind of coin..

even after paying for a lawyer theres no guarantee your not gonna lose your license or cop a massive fine, but at least you will look good and have someone to blame when you get reamed.

rollin's advice is good, but at the end of the day, you farked up, if it was me id just turn up well dressed and say, 'yeah i did it" and cop the fine and/or loss of license.

do they have legal aid here? community law or some other shit like that? find out and ask them heaps of questions.

if your court dates a while away go enrol in a defensive driving course, show the judge that this time youve learnt your lesson and have taken steps to improve your own driving, etc etc .

by **Frost** » January 5th, 2010, 10:06 pm

Few pieces of advise about going to court in Ballarat.

Ballarat judges are sick of hoon drivers. Your 95% chanced to loose your license, doesn't matter how hard you fight.
Ballarat legal aid is usually fairly ok, if you aint got the cash they are better than nothing.

Get a letter from your boss, stating he knows the charge, and that your license is crucial for his business and he doesn't know how long he can keep you on if you don't have your license.

Who was the cop?

And excuses like it was out of character wont work they have heard it all before.

Ballarat is fucked when it comes to driving offenses

But if you dont live in Ballarat you might be better off, do you live in Ballarat?

by **turbo** » January 5th, 2010, 10:24 pm

my m8 was doing burnouts and he lost it and went into a pole, well.. the cops came and then he had to go to court too

he was wearing a suit and his dad showed up with him and then they explianed to the judge what happened and he got off because of the way he dressed lol
the judge acuatly goes to him look around your only one here that showed up nicely and the judge pretty much let him off with just a fine

by **Rollin** » January 6th, 2010, 1:34 am

nstg8a wrote:
rollin's advice is good, but at the end of the day, you farked up, if it was me id just turn up well dressed and say, 'yeah i did it" and cop the fine and/or loss of license.

The only problem you get by saying "yeah I did it" is that the story the prosecutor will read out most likely consists of something like:

"I was travelling along x road when I saw the defendant doing a burnout in his supercharged nitrous assisted V8 Hoon Car while racing another hoon car past a preschool while mothers were trying to pick up their children. After doing a burnout that lasted approximately 30 seconds the defendant then proceeded to partially lose control of the vehicle while going around a corner at excessive speed, crossing the center line of the road multiple times while trying to retain control of the vehicle. I then turned on my lights and sirens and the defendant attempted to run away but I pursued him for a short time until he pulled over, at which point I checked his licence and obtained a specimen of his breath, which was .04, almost above the legal alcohol limit for an Australian driver.

The defendant was extremely uncooperative during this time and I had to caution him on his behaviour on several occasions before issuing him an infringement notice and allowing him to continue on his way."

I am not shitting you - they fabricate shit left right and center to make you seem like a psycho in front of the judge. Been the victim twice and have seen it happen to others (OED666 for instance) as well.

Lawyer ftw, especially if the cops/judges are as harsh as Frost reckons they are.

by **ELXR_96** » January 6th, 2010, 4:52 am

Frost wrote:Few pieces of advise about going to court in Ballarat.

Ballarat judges are sick of hoon drivers. Your 95% chanced to loose your license, doesn't matter how hard you fight.
Ballarat legal aid is usually fairly ok, if you aint got the cash they are better than nothing.

Get a letter from your boss, stating he knows the charge, and that your license is crucial for his business and he doesn't know how long he can keep you on if you don't have your license.

Who was the cop?

And excuses like it was out of character wont work they have heard it all before.

Ballarat is fucked when it comes to driving offenses

But if you dont live in Ballarat you might be better off, do you live in Ballarat?

Well that sounds positive lol... I'm getting some references from some people this week to start with. See how they go.
The officer was Oppenhuis. He just yelled and cursed then basically drove off.
I just moved to Ballarat like a month or 2 ago i'm from out in Clunes. I told him that so he could post it here but i'm not registered in here so i could say i'm not from here.

by **ELXR_96** » January 6th, 2010, 4:58 am

Rollin wrote:
nstg8a wrote:
rollin's advice is good, but at the end of the day, you farked up, if it was me id just turn up well dressed and say, 'yeah i did it" and cop the fine and/or loss of license.

The only problem you get by saying "yeah I did it" is that the story the prosecutor will read out most likely consists of something like:

"I was travelling along x road when I saw the defendant doing a burnout in his supercharged nitrous assisted V8 Hoon Car while racing another hoon car past a preschool while mothers were trying to pick up their children. After doing a burnout that lasted approximately 30 seconds the defendant then proceeded to partially lose control of the vehicle while going around a corner at excessive speed, crossing the center line of the road multiple times while trying to retain control of the vehicle. I then turned on my lights and sirens and the defendant attempted to run away but I pursued him for a short time until he pulled over, at which point I checked his licence and obtained a specimen of his breath, which was .04, almost above the legal alcohol limit for an Australian driver.

The defendant was extremely uncooperative during this time and I had to caution him on his behaviour on several occasions before issuing him an infringement notice and allowing him to continue on his way."

I've seen it happen to. They just write what happened in the dreams.
That's why i didn't know why i didn't get a copy of it. There was no real conversation. Just him screaming saying he was off duty and couldn't be fucked. He actually scared the shit outa me i said the most of 2 words so if it has me speaking shit i'll be very unhappy. But oh well i spose i'll have to shaft it

I am not shitting you - they fabricate shit left right and center to make you seem like a psycho in front of the judge. Been the victim twice and have seen it happen to others (OED666 for instance) as well.

Lawyer ftw, especially if the cops/judges are as harsh as Frost reckons they are.

by **ELXR_96** » January 6th, 2010, 5:35 am

Sorry i wrote in the quote by accident
I've seen it happen to. They just write what happened in the dreams.
That's why i didn't know why i didn't get a copy of it. There was no real conversation. Just him screaming saying he was off duty and couldn't be fucked. He actually scared the shit outa me i said the most of 2 words so if it has me speaking shit i'll be very unhappy. But oh well i spose i'll have to shaft it
Also does anyone have a rough idea what time they'll try disqualify my licence for?

by **t1MMy** » January 6th, 2010, 8:51 am

There's not "set rule" for how long you may lose it. Could be 1 month, could be 6 months. It's the Judges disgression so it's hard to say.

by **67rce** » January 6th, 2010, 9:51 am

Rollin wrote:
nstg8a wrote:
rollin's advice is good, but at the end of the day, you farked up, if it was me id just turn up well dressed and say, 'yeah i did it" and cop the fine and/or loss of license.

The only problem you get by saying "yeah I did it" is that the story the prosecutor will read out most likely consists of something like:

"I was travelling along x road when I saw the defendant doing a burnout in his supercharged nitrous assisted V8 Hoon Car while racing another hoon car past a preschool while mothers were trying to pick up their children. After doing a burnout that lasted approximately 30 seconds the defendant then proceeded to partially lose control of the vehicle while going around a corner at excessive speed, crossing the center line of the road multiple times while trying to retain control of the vehicle. I then turned on my lights and sirens and the defendant attempted to run away but I pursued him for a short time until he pulled over, at which point I checked his licence and obtained a specimen of his breath, which was .04, almost above the legal alcohol limit for an Australian driver.

The defendant was extremely uncooperative during this time and I had to caution him on his behaviour on several occasions before issuing him an infringement notice and allowing him to continue on his way."

I am not shitting you - they fabricate shit left right and center to make you seem like a psycho in front of the judge. Been the victim twice and have seen it happen to others (OED666 for instance) as well.

Lawyer ftw, especially if the cops/judges are as harsh as Frost reckons they are.

I've been the victim of this exact same thing twice. 1st time I had a lawyer, got on conviction, no loss of licence and a $250 fine. 2nd time, no lawyer, conviction, 4 month loss of licence and $600 fine.

by **nstg8a** » January 6th, 2010, 10:38 am

how much did the lawyer cost you?

i had no idea the cops were that full of it over here, pretty fucking rank.

by **67rce** » January 6th, 2010, 10:48 am

Lawyer was $3k. Also, in my case, the 3 cops (1 rookie, still in the academy) couldn't even agree which way they were going or what street it was on but I still got done! All the cops could agree on was there was smoke. (which actually came from the commodore next to me and blew under my car) the cops couldn't even agree what wheels were smoking, one said front, another said rear, 3rd said all 4.

by **ELXR_96** » January 6th, 2010, 4:48 pm

67rce wrote:Lawyer was $3k. Also, in my case, the 3 cops (1 rookie, still in the academy) couldn't even agree which way they were going or what street it was on but I still got done! All the cops could agree on was there was smoke. (which actually came from the commodore next to me and blew under my car) the cops couldn't even agree what wheels were smoking, one said front, another said rear, 3rd said all 4.

Lol that's bullshit.
As for 2 grand for a lawyer that can get stuffed! I'm starting uni and quitting my job so i got no money. Just cop a loss of licence and a fine that i probably wont pay.

by **Rollin** » January 6th, 2010, 5:16 pm

If you don't pay your fine you don't get your licence back....

I got busted drifting...er I mean driving unlicenced, cost me $750 for a lawyer (I got an expensive one on purpose) and I got a $700 fine and the minimum penalty of 6 months suspension. My lawyer reckoned that it would have cost me $1500+ in fines and I would have got a longer suspension if I didn't have a lawyer...so I'm quite happy to have shelled out.

by **Frost** » January 6th, 2010, 5:46 pm

Guy got done 12 months for hooning, by doing 40km over on Sturt St today. So Good luck

by **ELXR_96** » January 6th, 2010, 8:12 pm

Oh joy... Have to see what i cop i supose.. Gay i don't want anymore stories lol stressing me out a tad.

by **Frost** » January 6th, 2010, 9:40 pm

ELXR_96 wrote:Oh joy... Have to see what i cop i supose.. Gay i don't want anymore stories lol stressing me out a tad.

Dont read the paper Wednesday mornings then or Saturdays

by **Godzilla** » January 6th, 2010, 10:01 pm

A lot of good advice from Rollin, pretty much on the money.

My brother is a lawyer and once told me Ballarat is hoons in court central, its pretty common there and the judges were pretty sick of it and hard about it, but having said that they are pretty ho hum lately due to so many cases coming through.

Get a good lawyer, a letter from your employer, make sure your neat, presentable, respectable and good luck in court.

When the judge speaks to you or you speak to him/her make sure your standing.

You address a judge as "your Honor", not your lordship, speak clearly and politely, keep your answers brief, accurate and to the point. Answer the question asked if any....dont sidetrack and get off topic, stay to exactly the question.

If your unsure, you can go to see some court cases to understand the etiquette before your case.

Good luck with it.

by **ELXR_96** » January 21st, 2010, 6:51 am

Today's the day. I dare say i'll be shedding my EB and pulling her apart so i can't get tempted and drive anywhere. Wish me luck!

by **ELXR_96** » January 21st, 2010, 12:37 pm

Talked the judge up and got off with a 6 months behavior Bond. I have to participate in a road trauma awareness meeting and pay a $250 donation to the court. So lucky. I only got Legal aid it cost me $180

by **bushman** » January 21st, 2010, 3:03 pm

What a score!! Nice work on the judge man, you may need some band aids though for the missing skin on your knee's lol

by **BROCKYB8** » January 21st, 2010, 3:14 pm

Well you learn from this now and dont do it again .
Just be thankful.

by **ELXR_96** » January 21st, 2010, 4:51 pm

Yeah I've learnt finally. I was planning on fitting my wade cam with springs and J3 it but i i'm going to sell it all and spend it on just making my car look as neat as possible. I really have figured it's not worth it.

by **Frost** » January 21st, 2010, 7:29 pm

Geez the Judge must of got laid in the morning. LOL, rare occasion for ballarat.

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