New Rally Series for EA - EL Falcons & VN - VS Commodores 20

[AaronEF8]

I noticed the same, and there would be more of an advantage to drop a VS Ecotec V6 into a VN shell.

It doesn't mention anything about commodore IRS being allowed or not, this would make a pretty big advantage to the Commodores if it were allowed.

I'm not sure why plug-in ECU controllers aren't allowed, seeing as a Kalmaker with software is under $500, and the EEC can be tuned by ~$150 of parts as seen in the thread on here. You could argue that it would increase engine life, improve fuel economy and drivability.

Theres also the rule regarding the use of LSD's, saying they have to be stock specification 'to save money' and can't be shimmed up etc. A std BW78 LSD will be dead and start open wheeling half way through the second stage, requiring another $400 rebuild at the end of the round. Whereas a locker type unit can be had from the US for ~$350, and last for ever. Since every single car in the field will be running a BW78, a pretty decent group buy could be organised to cut down on costs further.

The camshaft rules for the Falcons read like EA-ELs have twin-cam heads. BA motor anyone?

Oh, and how funny would a DA LTD look sideways through the forest

[ernysp76]

Thanks for the feedback thus far:

* Camshaft rules will be adjusted
* LSD will last a lot longer than anticiapted in this thread however the purpose is to stop people shimming to the point of locking the diff. A locked rear diff will require a lot of experince in dirt where as a LSD will be easier for those begining in the sport.
* Commodores will NOT be allowed to run the IRS.
* Eco Tech motors from the VS Series II are OK to use as we see not parity issues with this infact ealy VN V6 may in fact produce more torque.
* ECU's no changes allowed, may even be a ballot.

As for the quest for power I suggest that the emphisis of your build and the money be spent on ensuring the car will stop well and corner well, more power does not translate into quicker stage times, Tim Sutchberry in his old VK with a 186 is alway beating the VN V8's.

There is a fear that with these cars as there was so many variations of the motor that the whole idea is just too hard to get off the ground, we have many sceptics, I think we may even need to tighten the rules further if people are going to spend big money on XR6 and Ecotech motors, we need to remember this series is designed to be accessable. The rules are based on the Excel Series, all they do is put a cage in some suspension new brake pads a terratrip, terraphone some driving lights and they go rallying. Total build time for some of the more competitive cars about 4 weeks partime and weekends.

We need to use the KISS principle.

[AaronEF8]

An XR6 motor isn't really 'big money', it's a camshaft and head change on a standard bottom end. VS Ecotec motors are smaller, lighter, make 17kw more and sit further back in the engine bay than the earlier V6s. There's also the subject of suspension, as EF-EL front ends use much larger bushes than the earlier models, which would be good for durability.

I'm not sure how well a ballot would work with Falcons, as there's at least 3 different ECU types that won't connect to each others loom, and some stock ECU's are better than others, IE EL XR6 v EA MPFI, and some work with different fuel pressures to other ECUs. This is the reason I suggested a $100 ECU chip, just to take the difficulties out of trying to match up ECU's, leave the fuel pressure regulator alone, and make it more simple

We need to use the KISS principle.

I agree, although simple doesn't always have to mean 'stock standard', especially when we're talking about 10-21 year old cars.

At this point, it looks like the series will be an EA/VN-mutant dominated series with an EB-EL and VP-VS support class. I wouldn't have thought you could expect people to handicap themselves when they can build a better car that's still totally within the rules. I know what option I would choose.

The rules are based on the Excel Series, all they do is put a cage in some suspension new brake pads a terratrip, terraphone some driving lights and they go rallying. Total build time for some of the more competitive cars about 4 weeks partime and weekends.

They don't rebuild the engines/boxes on the Excels? How do they go after a season of racing?

[ernysp76]

I'll bow to your better judgement on the ECU's and certainly realise that you have more options than the Excels. In relation to how do the motors go after a season, I'm now coming to the end of my third season on the same motor that started life as a 125,000k shopping trolley I have changed the timing belt once and the cam chain once. We drive them as if we hate them (best thing to do with an Excel) and they don't break. Reason being they use standard drive train, standard ECU (rev limited). If an engine breaks (we've only had three in 17 cars) we pick up a engine gearbox combo for about $400 and throw it in and off we go again. We don't run tachos (don't need them) as we are bouncing the things of the electronic rev limiters anyway. Tim Sutchberry tells me he will be chasing a Ford to do he will be using a EA shell with many EL front end parts and is thinking of going Tickford LPG says this would simplify things all round, he also said he would be lowering the Watts linkage pickup point by 20mm to eliminate the roll oversteer effect as done on the EL. He also likes softer spring rates in his rally cars so I guess this will help.

[xrTute]

Not sure if this is a re-post, but heres the draft of the regulations. All looks quite good. Still concerned about the ECU ballot idea. But you'd have to think pretty much everyone would be running either EF/EL XR ECU's anyway so probably highly unlikely to be disadvantaged.

http://www.vicrally.com.au/repository/f ... ore_EA.pdf

[SNR]

Also you would be better off with the more rigid body (EB2) as a starting point. An EA would probably start to fall apart.

[ernysp76]

Idea is dead no interest in committing to building, or attending meeting