New Rally Series for EA - EL Falcons & VN - VS Commodores 20

by **EFFalcon** » July 10th, 2008, 8:59 pm

mmmm... i like where this is headed.

by **ernysp76** » July 10th, 2008, 9:14 pm

Sorry the meeting is on Tuesday 29th July NOT 26th July as previously mentioned, my mistake! :oops:

by **AaronEF8** » July 10th, 2008, 11:59 pm

Well a trailer will only be needed for 2 days at a time, and I believe rally cars can still drive to and from the rally, so there wouldn't even be mass amounts of towing.

As the rallies are mostly one dayers, a large range of spares wouldn't be needed either. There's usually 100-200km of competitive stages (it might not sound like much, but its a few hours) so fuel use and overall car wear shouldn't be too bad either.

As Jared said, a competitive Saloon Car is over 10k these days, a boosted E-Series drifter would easily go over 10k, same with IPR, and in state production series, they wouldn't be too competitive against Euro and Jap cars in their class.

There's no reason a rally car can't be used at MotorKhanas, Hillclimbs, Gymkhana, skidpan/drift practice day etc as well, so if there is a small group of people who want to drive/navigate, there's more track time, plus it's a good learning experience.

There's a chance I could be at the meeting too, I need to go to Melb again soon.

by **Commando** » July 11th, 2008, 8:21 am

If driving the rally car to/from events is done, that means it needs rego & (pref) insurance... might be a PITA driving a stripped-out 120dB EA covered in rally stickers to/from events & trying to avoid HWP

by **Gunns** » July 11th, 2008, 11:14 am

If this goes ahead I will be building a box car to have a crack.
I finally get to dust off my CAMS licence after years off no use.

by **Commando** » July 11th, 2008, 11:32 am

GUNNS with the licence!!!

If you represent E-Series/Boosted, you can have my lokka (assuming they're allowed) and I'll help out with the purchase of said boxcar.

by **Commando** » July 11th, 2008, 12:01 pm

2 minute Paint render

by **Steady** » July 11th, 2008, 1:23 pm

Commando wrote:If driving the rally car to/from events is done, that means it needs rego & (pref) insurance... might be a PITA driving a stripped-out 120dB EA covered in rally stickers to/from events & trying to avoid HWP

Rally rego Dave

Can drive to and from events, and if a letter is obtained from CAMs can drive it for "testing".
And noise limit is 96db, so we'd have to keep the car quiet :lol:

by **Commando** » July 11th, 2008, 1:28 pm

Rally rego! Fark I should get that for the EB. Do minimeets count as "events"?

Having a flanged detatchable portion of the exhaust (stuffed with steel wool) should cover the 96db limit

by **Steady** » July 11th, 2008, 1:31 pm

Nah I mean 96db is the limit for rallies too

by **Gunns** » July 11th, 2008, 1:39 pm

I like your MS paint efforts Dave.
If this goes ahead the car will be manily built with sponsor money, so it should not hurt my pocket to much.
Time to go to Whispers and have chat......................yeah a chat

by **Malakai** » July 11th, 2008, 1:45 pm

Sick guys, if this goes ahead I will definitely come down for the debut rally.

Without being allowed to have an LSD or Lokka you would only wear out one tyre per rally, there is some cost savings there. :shock:

by **AaronEF8** » July 11th, 2008, 1:46 pm

96db is fairly loud still isn't it? CAMS require 6cyls to doo the test at 3000rpm.

Every rally car I've seen/heard/driven certainly hasn't been quiet, rally cars have to be loud, it's a rule

by **Commando** » July 11th, 2008, 1:55 pm

Plenty of room all over the rest of the car for sponsor stickers! An SVO mockup would be so easy hey, plus with all the crap hitting below the door inserts it'd probably pay to have the lower bit done in stoneguard paint or something.

Thinking along the line of Whispers, etc... wetspot-style sticker on the back window?

GUNNS transport?

by **Alesia** » July 11th, 2008, 2:12 pm

damn to bad i sold the ea coulda used that

by **Bipolar** » July 11th, 2008, 2:16 pm

89AIT wrote:Without being allowed to have an LSD or Lokka you would only wear out one tyre per rally, there is some cost savings there.

Commando wrote:If this EA-EL VN-VS series were to be very similar to the Hyundai series, it states the following regarding engine mods (I'll reword to suit e-series vehicles)

EDIT - all changes I have made to the Hyundai Rules PDF are highlighted in bold red. My additional comments are in italics. These are NOT the rules for this proposed upcoming EA-EL VN-VS series, just my guess at some of them. The 26/7 meeting mentioned by the OP is about discussing these rules.

Commando wrote:w. The lowest final drive ratio used is 3.45, which is standard in the XR & latter Ghia series. Limited slip and locked differentials are not permitted. Gearbox ratios are to remain standard.

ernysp76 wrote:...parity and cost are tightly controlled through the use of standard drivetrain.

AFAIK No Australian model of Excel had an LSD.

by **Malakai** » July 11th, 2008, 3:25 pm

Yeah because I was being serious.

by **Bipolar** » July 11th, 2008, 6:07 pm

You so were! j/k

I wanted to post that on the first page yesterday but ran out of time.

by **ernysp76** » July 14th, 2008, 10:14 am

Goodmorning all, still waiting to confirm the venue, thanks to those that have had a look at the Excel Rules..... great work!! Just a reminder the meeting will be on

Tuesday 29th of July, starting at 7.30 pm VENUE to be announced (most likely just off Monash Freeway near Clayton RSVP via PM to me.

I have had a chat to some people that have been building rally cars for some time, they will be concentrating rules to make sure suspension will be strong enough/versus cost, also they HAVE reccommended LSD not compolsory but highly reccommended, for safety and control.

It has been pointed out the a similar series failed a few years ago because people wanted to go balistic on power and build ups, remember we want this to be entertaining but also competitive if some want to go over the top thats fine but not in this series they can build their cars to the full compliance of the Production Rally Car, but it WILL cost a fortune if they want to run up the front of the pack. I suggest we keep this simple and keep the cars as close to how GOD (Ford) intended this will minimise costs and make it more competitive.

As far a sponsorship goes as this will be promoting fords that are largely not sold even in used car lots at Ford dealers that we go down the line of using the series to launch the motorcraft brand.... just and idea, if anyone has contacts you might like to follow it up.

by **Commando** » July 14th, 2008, 10:49 am

That's great news about LSD most likely being allowed!

Overall, for simplicity's sake regarding most parts except suspension/safety areas (and as mentioned in the Excel series freedoms are allowed to catback & intake), it's probably best to limit engine/driveline modifications to something along the lines of "if it was available from factory at the time (ie XR6 parts fitted to a GLi... or VS ecotec into VN), it can be fitted to your rally car". The Falcons' power/displacement advantages will be countered by the Commodores being lighter.

by **ernysp76** » July 17th, 2008, 2:27 pm

Formation meeting for the EA - El Falcon & VN - VS Commodore rally series will be held:

Venue: Victorian Rover Centre
Hunt Reserve
1 Highland Ave
Clayton North VIC 3168 (off Ferntree Gully Rd)

Time: 7.30 pm

Date: 29th July 2008

Contact No: John on 0429007080

Looking forward to meeting you, remember this weekend a taste or what you can expect next year at Rawson Village, North of Moe, action kicks of at 12 noon till 8 pm
service park will be open to the public.

by **Commando** » July 17th, 2008, 2:34 pm

Hopefully I'll bump into you at Rawson!

Cheers

-Dave-

Thread (finally) stickied too

by **YBYAVL** » July 17th, 2008, 4:24 pm

pHaT`eL wrote:Pakenham Auto Club is the one my mates in.

Testing could be amusing

Wonder if Dandy wants to have a go?

are u fuking serious....wen do yuz want me to start striping my car????

sum1 gimme a lil 70z corolla to run about in an ill get the falcon all caged out an setup for this shit...
i rekn i can call few boys onboard for sponsorship aswell...
eg. getin the engin built an rebuilt an so on, dekin it out will all the race gear, prety much getn the car built...my mates all have work shops...
ill store the kunt at my house...ill leave the keys with dave, coz we all no wat im like

i rekn thats the last thin we need, an e-series rally car rollin in thru anaconda on a Tuesday night haha....
ok back to bein serious....

i havnt red the 2nd page yet so ill do that now, but count me in....

------------------------------------------------------

29th u say, thats my b'day an i think the old ladie is planning somthing....might have to sneak away so i can attend the meeting....
fuk im keen for this shit....

my old ladie jus sed shed pay for my camms license for my B'day....BANGA!

1.YBYAVL (DandyNights)

by **AaronEF8** » July 17th, 2008, 4:54 pm

Keep in mind you need a current drivers licence for a CAMS licence to be valid. And you need to spell correctly on the application form

"if it was available from factory at the time (ie XR6 parts fitted to a GLi... or VS ecotec into VN), it can be fitted to your rally car"

I'm not sure how they will go with that. I'm thinking maybe it will be whatever motor was fitted to that car, to keep things more competitive. If motors/trans can be swapped across the range, I imagine an EA with EL motor/box and a VN with a T5/Ecotec would be the 2 fastest cars out there, both having the most powerful engine in the lightest bodies. So there would be a disadvantage running an EF/EL/VR/VS, and I personally think an EF/EL would be a better car for the job, plus sponsorship is always easier to get on a newer car.

What's happening at Rawson, a VRC rally or parity testing for the new series?

by **YBYAVL** » July 17th, 2008, 5:00 pm

fuk spellin, if imports dun needa lern the langwage, i dun needa spellit

by **YBYAVL** » July 17th, 2008, 5:04 pm

PM

YBYAVL wrote:im fukn down with this shit for sure man....even if yuz dont wana use my car ill still build it an have boosted falcon shit all over it, get a few cars entering

Commando wrote:Post that up publically!
We're all keen to see someone (or multiple cars) representing the club if this event goes ahead.

by **pHaT`eL** » July 17th, 2008, 5:18 pm

+1, get onto it Luke

by **YBYAVL** » July 17th, 2008, 5:52 pm

im sortin sum shit out now....seein wat i can and cant get done...

cage is alredy lined up,
engine is alredy sorted
got a clutch....need a box

by **Commando** » July 17th, 2008, 6:25 pm

Other things to consider Luke would be transport (towing vehicle plus towing trailer) or a rally permit for the car (do NOT bring this to cruises/minimeets :lol:

). Something tells me your tek-screwed radiator support won't pass scrutineering... I'd work with another E-Series shell if I were you. Also, I'd hold off doing ANYTHING until A) you know the series is going ahead, and B) all the regs are finalised and clear.

No point building a car you can't use!

by **YBYAVL** » July 17th, 2008, 6:38 pm

Commando wrote:Other things to consider Luke would be transport (towing vehicle plus towing trailer) or a rally permit for the car (do NOT bring this to cruises/minimeets ). Something tells me your tek-screwed radiator support won't pass scrutineering... I'd work with another E-Series shell if I were you. Also, I'd hold off doing ANYTHING until A) you know the series is going ahead, and B) all the regs are finalised and clear.

No point building a car you can't use!

naa ino that dave....ill seam weld the thing....
ye im not guna use mine, im copn to much grief off the missus about it....
its not guna be that hard to find 1 anyway...as for transport, i got heaps of towy mates and access to tandems, or like u sed, rally reg ...
i rekn thats the way to go

its not like ive started pullin my car apart atm anyway lol
im jus seein wats possible on the very minimal budget i have
i rekn it can be done for under 5gz
assuming i/we dont pay thru the ass for a shell...
might even be worth jus findn 1 thats regd an still runs for like 1000bux....or even 700

on that note,

im out like a light....untill next time my fellow e-series owners

take it easy, an if its easy....fukn TAKE IT!

by **Commando** » July 17th, 2008, 6:56 pm

VRC Standard Entry $500
VRC Registration – Interstate Crews $50pp
Declining Advertising Material $200
Additional Road Books $20ea
Additional Service Crew registration $15ea

I copy/pasted this from the current form (for entry per event... cost most likely varies from event to event)

http://www.vicrally.com.au/repository/f ... 20Form.pdf

So you're looking at an absolute minimum of $500 in this case, if you were entering this weekend's event.

by **pHaT`eL** » July 17th, 2008, 7:02 pm

Maybe not as cheap as first thought then, if its $500 per round/event, a few rounds would be a decent turbo setup on your road car

by **AaronEF8** » July 17th, 2008, 9:57 pm

$500 + fuel ($100) + tyres ($250-$500) + damage. But you're missing the point

by **Commando** » July 17th, 2008, 10:01 pm

Sif Luke wouldn't race on LPG + retread stockies

(let's ignore the regs here)

by **pHaT`eL** » July 17th, 2008, 10:04 pm

AaronEF8 wrote:$500 + fuel ($100) + tyres ($250-$500) + damage. But you're missing the point

I know, would still be awesome fun if you had the cash, but then again, so would SaloonCar racing

by **YBYAVL** » July 18th, 2008, 5:18 pm

haha dave, i was wondering about LPG....

if yuz kunts wana donate every round to pay the entry fee...ill build the car

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

scratch that!...
due to recent events with the falcon, i cant build the rally car anymore
money has to go into the "family car" so to speak.
sorry guys

details in YBYAVL thread

by **Commando** » July 19th, 2008, 6:58 pm

I went to the Rawson stage today, it was great! A large selection of cars there, from Hyundais; to oldskool Cortinas, Corollas, Datsuns (120Ys, 240Zs, Stanzas), RX7s; to V8 Commodores (manual VP and automatic -lol- VC); to Lancers & WRXs. Unfortunately the EF that was meant to attend blew up it's engine that morning

E-Series are shit.

I had the pleasure of meeting John today, I missed seeing his Hyundai in action though, had to move my car when a heap of 4WDs rocked up at the main spectator point

Anyway, a couple of bits of info I got from John, and from ??? Stuckey? (I missed the first name, he covered tyres for the round):

1) In the round I watched today, there were control tyres for the series. They were $175 each, and for a RWD car you'd expect to require 2 new tyres per round (4 if a tough round). Regular rotation from front to back ensures longer tyre life.

2) Brakes. John's Hyundai had standard brakes (rotors, calipers, etc) but with special pads which cost $300 each (compared to $15 each for standard pads, trade price). These $300 pads have lasted John 2 years so far!

3) This EA-EL vs VN-VS series *may* get sponsorship through David Nutter Ford, with possible discounts off RRP or even factory trade costs for tyres and other parts

I also spoke with the driver and co-driver of a V8 VP Commodore who are in this current mixed series. I asked a few questions about the car, & got this info:

* Their 5.0 is still injected, and puts out 176rwkw
* They have an Aussie 4 speed behind it
* The diff is welded :twisted:

* They needed to do a LOT of strengthening to the underbody/suspension. They were constantly ripping arms out & flogging out bushes, until they threw a few thousand towards the rear in particular and it just handles/endures much more now. They said it's a constantly evolving car, so it's good to know you can continue to make changes to a car throughout a series (within spec). For suspension they said springs, shocks, and bushes are most important to invest in. Suspension TYPE can't be changed though, ie you can't hook up a Watts linkage to a non-Watts linkage car (or rip one out of a Falcon), or change the mounting points. Chopped springz on cut bumpstops + shortened hatz uleh?
* The car was pretty much stripped out, except for the dash & doorskins. The parcel shelf/back seat area had sheet metal riveted over the whole lot so I'm not sure whether the body had trusses stiffening it underneath or not (I didn't think to ask at the time). They had racing buckets & 4-point X-style harnesses for seatbelts.

I had the shit camera with me with a pissy 16mb card, and the battery was half dead, so I didn't get many pics or movies. Here goes:

^^^ this guy was all over the shop when careering up the straight! :lol:

^^^ whoops! This bloke stopped 1m from the tree/embankment.

Oh, and I got this for Dan/Rob too:

The only movie I got before the camera coincidentally ran out of memory (and died) was of the VP. I'll throw that up on a minute, when it finally loads.

by **Commando** » July 19th, 2008, 7:12 pm

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b107/ ... ure014.flv

BWOOB BWOOB BWOOB!

by **YBYAVL** » July 19th, 2008, 7:25 pm

i hate seein shit like this....i wish i was born into the rothchilds or the packers =/

by **Kenaz** » July 19th, 2008, 7:57 pm

That's mint Dave! Cheers for the update

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