Worked V8 V. I6T

[EL XR8]

My bad, what i was getting at was Ford 5.0 vs Ford i6.
Last time i checked a Ford 5.0l N/A V8 will put out more power than any Ford i6 i've ever heard of.
Stock motor for stock motor, put a blower on either the 8 will end up with more power...
I'd pretty well be assuming if a turbo was on the side, the cubes would come up trumps.

Your test would be interesting to see Rollin. For shits and giggles. Someone should try it!

Hang on, Steady has a 5.0l sitting in his shed doing nothing, and a blower doing nothing for the moment, anyone got a 4.0l handy, and some one who could be fucked setting it up. haha

[TUFED6]

There are approximately 23948059483905 people in the USA making over 600hp and trapping 140mph+ with unopened 2J's.

Anthony @ Maztech put one in his Commy ute, unopened with an eBay manifold, T04Z, injectors and Microtech and it runs 10's all day.

We all have our favourite motors but you can't compare any 4.0 or V8 or RB with that kind of factory tuffness.

Then you build a serious one and do this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU8DxXhwdSI

[Rollin]

EL XR8 - you still aren't making any sense - are you saying that any ford v8 built in the same year as any ford I6 will have more power, or 'all' ford V8s 'all' have more power than 'all' ford I6s? EB/D/F? XR8 makes 165kw, EF/EL/AU XR6 makes 164..ooh, 1kw, that's gunna break the bank. I6 weighs less, making the 6s faster than the 8s anyway. AU XR6 VCT makes 172kw just for the record.


TUFED - That supra is Fast.
P.S. I hate youtube...it has strange time-warp abilities that turn 7:00pm into 1:00am seemingly within minutes

[someLS1]

This thread goes around in circles more then a BT1 at bell st maccas

[Damo]

Yep YouTube is evil, you look at one video then there's 11ty billion ones that grab your attention and you HAVE to watch.

[Steady]

EL XR8 - you still aren't making any sense - are you saying that any ford v8 built in the same year as any ford I6 will have more power, or 'all' ford V8s 'all' have more power than 'all' ford I6s? EB/D/F? XR8 makes 165kw, EF/EL/AU XR6 makes 164..ooh, 1kw, that's gunna break the bank. I6 weighs less, making the 6s faster than the 8s anyway. AU XR6 VCT makes 172kw just for the record.


TUFED - That supra is Fast.
P.S. I hate youtube...it has strange time-warp abilities that turn 7:00pm into 1:00am seemingly within minutes

Nah, hes saying that staying N/A with mods, the 5L will beat the 4L, and when adding boost to a stock motor, 5L still beats 4L.
No replacement for displacement, except revs, and the 5L has that in the bag too
Theres approximately 61122443383842 Mustangs in the states doing sub 10sec passes with Windsors.
And the block splitting in 5Ls is a moot point, just grab a 351 roller block, cheaper then a dart, holds more power then a 302.
And everything is so cheap and available. Want headstuds? Off the shelf. Rods to hold 2000hp? Off the shelf. CNC ported alloy heads that will flow everything you need and more? Off the shelf. Forged pistons of any dish/dome? Off the shelf.
While the SOHC 4L might be cheaper for the little stuff, once you start going BIG, with Windsors the sky/your wallet is the limit.

But as TUFED6 said, stock motor, 2JZ > *, toyota over-engineering FTMFW.

[TUFED6]

What kind of power level will a Windsor crank/rods/block hold?

It's been pretty much settled that the standard 4.0 bottom end has enough balls to hold 700HP, maybe a bit more if you are game.

I doubt any factory Windsor conrod is that tough, but I don't know much about them.

[Steady]

Stock 4L bottom end is stronger no doubt.
302 roller block is in the danger zone at 300+rwkw (by our dynos), more revs will kill them quicker, less revs they might last longer.
Stock rods, pistons and crank can outlast the block on a good tune.

This is a good read.
http://www.theturboforums.com/stockblock.php

[slo_sprint]

The earlier stock windsor crank, rods, forged pistons will take 500-600hp on a good tune and under 6200rpm

it all comes down to if you love the Windsor thats all that will matter and the I6 just won't cut it but if you love the I6 the Windsor won't do the job. It doesn't matter what way you look at it it will be clouded by bias and go around in circles.

I love the Windsor for some ungodly reason and wouldn't have an e-series without one because the I6 just doesn't do anything for me, i mean it's a great engine, can make awsome amounts of power and i respect it immensely but at the end of the day i'd rather have the Wheezer.

[Rollin]

I do like they way they sound at 7000rpm

I look forewards to a personal demonstration from you in the near future, slo_sprint

[slo_sprint]

I do like they way they sound at 7000rpm

I look forewards to a personal demonstration from you in the near future, slo_sprint

Ha ha 7000rpm won't be happening on this combo man, a 6000rpm demonstration is doable however

[Rollin]

That isn't good enough. Make it turn faster.

[slo_sprint]

One day when i have the money to fork over for a man 'o' war block, afr heads and an 8 throttle body injection setup i shall but in the mean time its stock block fun.

[Steady]

351. Free cubes + stronger block. Its a win-win situation.

[slo_sprint]

It also has a 9.2" deck height as opposed to the 8.5" for the 302 which makes fitment a pain in the ass and the later 351's really dont take a whole lot more than the roller 302. (can't say i haven't thought about it)

On the other hand theres the early flat tappet 302's and 351's which will take 500hp and 750hp respectively and the mexican 302 which will take somewhere in between the 2 you will need a small base circle retro roller cam or stick with flat tappet (ewwwww).

Too many choices, too little money and i have 2 roller 302's here i want to split first

[67rce]

Stock 4L bottom end is stronger no doubt.
302 roller block is in the danger zone at 300+rwkw (by our dynos), more revs will kill them quicker, less revs they might last longer.
Stock rods, pistons and crank can outlast the block on a good tune.

This is a good read.
http://www.theturboforums.com/stockblock.php

I personally know a guy who has an AUII XR8 with the 220kw Ticky motor (roller 302), stock as a rock, with a Vortech, Tune and Injectors putting out 356rwkw (477rwhp) and running 11.42 quarters in almost complete street trim (times ran with slicks) he ran an 11.82 on SV05/9psi/4th gear wheelspin

[syko4d]

bout the standard compare how does that matter if you have 2 more kws i noticed you forget to mention that the xr6 is quicker down the quarter around the track and anywere else you want to put the standard motors there is something much more important than cubes its called power to weight and the v8 will always lose sorry mate i love the sound of a v8 but there no better and as for parts off the shelf yeah they are there? wats that got to do with it do a 6 and a v8 up to the same power and no matter wat car you put it in the 6 will be quicker have as many cubes as you want a little escort two litre will come up and blow you away not to mention all the jap cars out there and seriously it doesnt matter wat you have its wat you spend the money on every one is different and like i said i like the sound of an 8 but even you v8 fans on here cant tell me there better than a six and can you do up a v8 to be quicker than a xr6 turbo for the same price???? no sorry you cant 6 grand for a small supercharger for the 5.4l litre 1500 for a flash tune? but if you want to compare properly you would have to spend six grand on the xr6t aswell and it will be carloads in front

[Dansedgli]

Use some full stops or something please. Give your posts a once over before you submit them.

They are painful to read at 8 am in the morning.

[Commando]

[EDFalcon]

syko4d: i already said something about your punctuation in the "show us your engine bay thread" but jeez mate you've gone to a new level with that last post!!

the I6 and the V8 are both very capable engines of reaching high power figures, but is that what this question is asking?? i read it as more of a "whats your preference between an I6T and V8 and why?". the majority of people on this forum own I6's (even though they might not all prefer the engine) if this was made into a poll i have no doubt the I6T would win. wrt power figures, it all depends on your budget. if you have a massive hip pocket both engines will be insane.

i have now owned both an I6 ED (be it N/A though) and a V8 and with the money i spent on the performance of the I6 i could have bought the 8 with money to spare and the 8 is quicker. Parts for the 8 are cheap from america due to the fact that the mustang runs the same engine.

[syko4d]

yeah sorry guys it was 1 in the morning when i typed it .

ed xr8 the parts are cheap from america in america but remember conversion rates aus dollar , us dollar??

so in saying that its not really.

and did your 6 run gas or something?car for car standard the six is quicker its a common known fact like every one is saying it comes to personal preference and how much you want to spend .

the only quicker 8 in the fords standard, thats quicker than the six is the sprint and for the money you could buy a six and twin turbo it make it look nice mags nearly everything so how is it that the eight is cheaper to do and quicker?

[EDFalcon]

us --> aus dollar isnt bad anymore if you've looked recently. still works out cheap..

my 6 wasnt gas. it had all the regular extras: exhaust, extractors, cam, springs, venier timing set, flash tune

you can see what the 8 has in the sig..

now i'm only going off what i've seen on the road but the 8 definitely is quicker (judged from how i've gone against the same friends, off road of course). remember you have to look at torque not just kw.

[syko4d]

fair enough well you would be the first to make a mess of mine

actually i do mean with the t5 back in not with the auto haha

and mine doesnt have anywere near the mods yours has but my other motor is modded quite nicely but anyway.

theres no point argueing u like v8s i like 6

[syko4d]

that tune on your six shouldve gave you atleast 140 at the wheels? atleast

ed six 145kw@ 4250rpm weight 1644 kgs (fairmont fully optioned thats wat i have) 341 nm torque

ed xr6 161 kw@ 4500rpm weight 1645 kgs 365 nmtorque

ed xr8 165 kw@ 4500rpm weight 1690kgs 388 nm torque

these are fords specifications straight out of my owners manual

so i think that makes sense the ed xr6 is 4 kws less and 45 kgs lighter so it would be quicker and torque does fit into the equation aswell your right but it isnt as important as power to weight

[syko4d]

and since i have a fully optioned fairmont u should beat me

[EDFalcon]

my last car was actually around 126rwkw. a very crude way of converting engine figures (which you have) to wheel figures is as follows:
HP Engine x 0.75 = KW Engine
KW Engine = HP Wheels
HP Wheels x 0.75 = KW Wheels
So a standard ED 6 outta the factory had about 108rwkw from this, probably lucky to have 100rwkw these days. just for reference for you. before my tune it dyno'd at 112, after 126 as previously stated.

i think you'll find that torque has a lot to do with acceleration. put very simply its the turning force of the wheels. with more force you can turn the wheels easier.

(before people abuse me for the faults this was just a simplified version)

[syko4d]

oh dear yes youre right torque does turn the wheels?

so are you sying the standard xr8 is quicker than the xr6?

anyways im goin to stop arguing with you read the magazines motor , wheels, dont know wat you read sorry but there totally unbiased so there the truth now read them cos i really dont want to take photos of them put them up on here just to show you wat we all already know?

any documentary any article there all going to tell you the same thing mate i dont need to calculate anything i didnt calculate that if you read it and i even spaced it out for you i said ,its straight out of the ed owners manual?

so how can that be wrong ?

and if youre talking about the power i thought yours could have, people have made 140rwks with less than that and before you say anything im aware cam choice and other things make this possible and you might have had a little cam or something i dont know?

oh one more thing howd the flash tuner go?.........

[Steady]

Actually having driven both cars > magazine articles.

[EDFalcon]

Actually having driven both cars > magazine articles.

cheers mate..

oh dear yes youre right torque does turn the wheels?

so are you sying the standard xr8 is quicker than the xr6?

anyways im goin to stop arguing with you read the magazines motor , wheels, dont know wat you read sorry but there totally unbiased so there the truth now read them cos i really dont want to take photos of them put them up on here just to show you wat we all already know?

any documentary any article there all going to tell you the same thing mate i dont need to calculate anything i didnt calculate that if you read it and i even spaced it out for you i said ,its straight out of the ed owners manual?

so how can that be wrong ?

and if youre talking about the power i thought yours could have, people have made 140rwks with less than that and before you say anything im aware cam choice and other things make this possible and you might have had a little cam or something i dont know?

oh one more thing howd the flash tuner go?.........

before i get into it, the flash tuner was awsome and recomend it to anyone.

i'm not comparing a xr6 to an xr8. never said i was. i was comparing my old I6 to my new xr8. i've driven both of these cars (der) and the 8 is quicker than the 6. wasnt sure if u were making fun of me with the torque comment, if u were F u if you werent, glad i could help. i'm not going to read a magazine when i can still drive them both and saves me having to learn english (be it the I6 without exhaust). with the calcs: the figures you supplied were engine figures, i was just converting.
now so you cant go on another rant where i run out of breath trying to finish one of your monster sentences:

NEVER said XR8 > XR6
MY old N/A I6 < MY new V8
TORQUE = Acceleration + Wheel Spin = Fun
ME = Right
YOU = aggressive, read into things, WRONG


anyway this topic is I6T VS V8, why we comparing N/A I6........
My opinion is V8, and i care about everone elses

except syko4d

[EL XR8]

The whole thing to the matter is, whether you do like either, and yes we all know the 6's are a a tenth or so down the quarter quicker than the 8's. I have not yet met anyone who has bought a V8 after owning a Falcon six, even when both are stock and the 6 might be quicker. Who would ever want to go back to the 6. Driveability and torque make them more enjoyable to drive everyday.
Thats why i'm glad i found another windsor in an AU2 XR8 for my daily as a ute.
You could say i'm biased, but i have owned and driven more i6's than V8's and i'll still take an 8, even if it's slower.
I reckon this formula would cover 99% of E-Series V8 owners.
Driving a 6 cyl, want a V8.
Drive a V8, don't want a 6cyl ever again.
Or it could just relate to me.

It is a thing of preference, and thats why Ford made both.
I personally wouldn't buy one of the new V8's in the BA's on, if there was a Turbo 6 option.
Anything from XT to Ghia's i'll tick the box for an 8, but XR's or FPV's i'll have a 6T thanks.

[EDFalcon]

^^^^^^^^^^^
said beautifully... i agree wholeheartedly to everything you said (up to the ba/bf part, would love a gt!!!) because i have also driven several 6cylinder falcons/fairmonts/xr's and now i have the 8, i could never go back.

[Commando]

Even when my EB was stock, compared to my EF, they're like chalk & cheese.

My XE had more go than my EF, and that was a 3.3 (5 spd)

[syko4d]

yeahp and personal preference it is ed i didnt mean to offend you but i like the six you like the eight one thing youll always have over me is the sound