Destiny of WORKD-6

by **obriza** » November 15th, 2007, 4:39 pm

As some of you may already know, WORKD-6 is currently off the road due to a few engine problems... It's been in the shop for a while now as i have been given a few different options. The first one probably wont happen as im still living at home and am only allowed to keep one car and would be kind of impractical to drive a custom to work and back every day, especially the repair bills $$$. Just dont really know which way to take...

by **Dansedgli** » November 15th, 2007, 4:45 pm

Will your stuff bolt onto a BA/BF motor?

If it will and you have an aftermarket ECU already do that.

What kind of engine problems does it have?

by **obriza** » November 15th, 2007, 5:06 pm

Yeah, ive had everything looked at... I just need a couple of new brackets and stuff for the charger to go on and i will be getting a chip for the engine too dont worry about that.
It blew a head gasket and as far as i know so far seems to have damaged a piston ring too, havent completely pulled the engine apart to tell that far. Just weighing up options first.

by **BI6TIM** » November 15th, 2007, 5:54 pm

I would be doing what I've just done and get the bottom end built. It's not as big a drama as it seems.
Bores oversized by 0.030" and dropped new Hypertek pistons in it, rings and bearings and off you go.
I also had the rods slightly moddified with ARP rod bolts and crank linished etc. etc. But you could get away without doing those things, although the ARP rod bolts would be recomended.

That would solve your problems fairly quickly and without too much expence.

by **Dansedgli** » November 15th, 2007, 6:08 pm

Yep do what Tim said.

There is too much cutting involved fitting a BA/BF motor. Keep it simple FTW.

by **EFFalcon** » November 15th, 2007, 8:06 pm

keep it realistic and simple
get it back on the road asap.

by **Steady** » November 15th, 2007, 8:11 pm

Rebuilt stock bottom end FTW.
What blower is it?

by **pHaT`eL** » November 15th, 2007, 8:14 pm

From memory its a PD blower..

by **Damo** » November 15th, 2007, 8:16 pm

get an AU motor, chuck your head and stuff on = done.

by **DOHC-EB** » November 15th, 2007, 8:26 pm

Dansedgli wrote:Yep do what Tim said.

There is too much cutting involved fitting a BA/BF motor. Keep it simple FTW.

yer take it from both of us... there not the easiest motors to get in and making it run... and plus i dont want too many ppl having dohc ba engines in their cars. looses the bragging rights lol

by **obriza** » November 15th, 2007, 9:55 pm

its a powerdyne centrifugal blower... Same as Rmyers, just got a bigger pulley running 9psi instead of 6. Yeh i was thinking so far could be either replace with good stuff or just get it running again. Will still take a while to get done though, got a quote for a couple now and its not cheap at all. Might not be done till either january or till the EB sells. I need money! lol

by **Commando** » November 16th, 2007, 7:21 am

I voted fix your donk & get some improvements done.

What's your current exhaust setup, & also your tune? (stock-ish? chipped? aftermarket ECU?)

by **galapogos01** » November 16th, 2007, 8:35 am

ill buy your old blower brackets if you go BF engine. ill buy the whole blower kit if you give up fixing it.

by **Sunboost** » November 16th, 2007, 8:56 am

There are about 6 stages of boosting an E-Series:

1. Excitement leading up to install, mainly during purchase of new parts and receiving them.
2. Pain and stress during fitment. Shit don't fit, shit don't work, shit leaks, shit needs to be pulled out and put back in a number of times before you get it right. Because it's custom access is BS.
3. Anger when it doesn't perform anywhere near how you expected
4. Happiness when it's tuned and runs well but you are still disappointed with the result so spend more money
5. Shit breaks. You get over it... for a little bit. Then you wanna go all out and do it differently.
6. Repeat steps 1 to 5

I've done all the steps about 3 times.

by **Steady** » November 16th, 2007, 11:56 am

obriza wrote:its a powerdyne centrifugal blower... Same as Rmyers, just got a bigger pulley running 9psi instead of 6. Yeh i was thinking so far could be either replace with good stuff or just get it running again. Will still take a while to get done though, got a quote for a couple now and its not cheap at all. Might not be done till either january or till the EB sells. I need money! lol

Powerdyne is never gonna push a stock motor to breaking point, 9psi is already pretty much at the limit unless you get those fancy internal belts from the states. But its still not ideal for big powaah.
Rebuilt stock bottom end man, it's not a copout in my opinion, its not worth spending any more money on the bottom end with that blower.
Look at the turbo guys, high 200rwkw is nothing on a stock bottom end, and you'll be struggling to ever get that with a powerdyne.
If you wanted a bit more strength, get some ACL Race series pistons, but I don't even think it needs that.
If you aren't already running aftermarket ECU, head that way with a good tune, stock bottom end will love it.
Then save for T-Trim

by **obriza** » November 16th, 2007, 4:16 pm

Commando wrote:I voted fix your donk & get some improvements done.

What's your current exhaust setup, & also your tune? (stock-ish? chipped? aftermarket ECU?)

well right now i only have genie extractors and 2.5" exhaust and it has a unichip. The new system im thinking of putting in is a custom 3 inch stainless steel and a wolf.

by **Commando** » November 16th, 2007, 11:24 pm

Is a 3 inch necessary with a Powerdyne headunit though? Wolf FTW however!

by **vulpine** » November 5th, 2008, 4:36 pm

hmmm my coolcharge is off a 500HP engine, and its basically the same as a powerdyne... why do i think the turbo heads are behind the myth of 200kw max :S
actually fact of basic physics, if you engine produced say 170kW before installing a 10psi supercharger, it should in theory produce about (1+(10/14.7))x170.
to sum up, at 10psi, you should be looking at 285kW from the powerdyne.
Also, there is no difference if its a 10psi turbo or a 10psi powerdyne supercharger other than the turbo induces more heat into the air and results in a loss of power.
the only limit might be rpm unless you get ceramic bearings.
Generally, a standard bearing is rated to about 40 thousand rpm.
From observation at the drag strip, the turbo charged engines lack torque at the start, over boost, and during blow off lose power, and in general dont really perform till about 2/3rd of the track. Great for smoking tyres but the superchargers in general are high torque off the start line, and power the entire distance.
To me, that says a supercharger is better for drag strip applications.

by **Commando** » November 5th, 2008, 4:48 pm

Vulpine, do you know how a centrifugal supercharger works? (EDIT - this isn't an attack)

Also:

there is no difference if its a 10psi turbo or a 10psi powerdyne supercharger other than the turbo induces more heat into the air and results in a loss of power.

How about power losses from the supercharger that rise with increasing RPM, from the power that's needed to spin the pulley? Have you hand-spun a centrifugal blower before? They've got resistance!

Blowers also have rpm limits based on their gearing, bearings, cooling system, compressor wheel design, etc etc.

Oh, one other thing:

A "10psi turbo" will create max boost under max engine load (with a combination of what gear you're in, diff ratio, rpms you're pulling at the time, cam profile, headwork, etc). A "10psi blower" in the centrifugal case will create max boost at max revs.

by **AaronEF8** » November 5th, 2008, 4:58 pm

hmmm my coolcharge is off a 500HP engine, and its basically the same as a powerdyne

Vortechs are 'basically' the same as a Powerdyne too.

actually fact of basic physics, if you engine produced say 170kW before installing a 10psi supercharger, it should in theory produce about (1+(10/14.7))x170.

In theory, where everything has a 100% efficiency rate, you're correct, but we are talking about practically here. The figures mentioned above were all quoted in rear wheel kw too...

Also, there is no difference if its a 10psi turbo or a 10psi powerdyne supercharger other than the turbo induces more heat into the air and results in a loss of power.

What about parasitic loss from turning the supercharger? Do you have any proof to back up your claims about a turbo creating more inlet charge heat than a centrifugal blower?

From observation at the drag strip, the turbo charged engines lack torque at the start, over boost, and during blow off lose power, and in general dont really perform till about 2/3rd of the track. Great for smoking tyres but the superchargers in general are high torque off the start line, and power the entire distance

This would be the case in a manual with a shit driver, but in an auto turbo car you can stall it up, build lots of boost, take off with more power than a centrifugal blown motor of the same specs and keep the turbo on full boost for the whole run.

why do i think the turbo heads are behind the myth of 200kw max :S

Says the person who raves about centrifugal superchargers. They don't hit max boost until redline.

[edit] Damn ninja

Also, what is the Gee-Oh with WORKD-6 these days?

by **stav50** » November 5th, 2008, 8:14 pm

sif open up a year old thread. last i heard i think botom end was rebuilt and car was back on the road running nicely

by **EFFalcon** » November 6th, 2008, 7:38 am

cars running but lacking a lot of power.
Obriza's searching for answers.

by **vulpine** » November 7th, 2008, 4:32 pm

by the way galapogos01 cracked a lot of the codes for the eec-v ef and el, so might not need a wolf, just a moates piggyback.
is about 1/10th the price of the tweecer and does the same thing basically.
Actually i think galapogos01 also has his own local version of the moates.

by **vulpine** » December 1st, 2008, 3:05 pm

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2079/article.html

by **Steady** » December 1st, 2008, 3:12 pm

I'm not sure what the point of that post is.
That's a gear driven powerdyne for starters (I can't remember the designation of them), obrizas is belt driven internals.
And then an even bigger kick in the guts for the powerdyne is that that exact same car made 600+rwhp when Brendan decided to turbocharge it :lol:

by **EFripin50&HSV** » December 12th, 2008, 3:32 am

I am putting an XR6T motor in my EF. EF is a nice car. just think about this conversion for a little while longer it is a simple job that makes for a great custom and praticle daily driver. those XR6T motors were built for boost in the first place.

by **wicksy** » December 12th, 2008, 7:07 am

EFripin50&HSV wrote:I am putting an XR6T motor in my EF. EF is a nice car. just think about this conversion for a little while longer it is a simple job that makes for a great custom and praticle daily driver. those XR6T motors were built for boost in the first place.

how do u know its a simple job, you done it or are you going off what everyone is saying.

by **EFripin50&HSV** » December 12th, 2008, 11:11 am

i had enquired about the conversion from 2 performance shops the both rekon 1 week is all thats needed to complete and $9000

by **Dansedgli** » December 12th, 2008, 11:16 am

Gee thats money well spent for sure.

by **stav50** » December 12th, 2008, 2:38 pm

why not spend said 9 grand on a rebuild and killer turbo setup, what a waste just for wank factor for being able to say i got an ef with a bf engine.

by **67rce** » December 12th, 2008, 6:36 pm

EFripin50&HSV wrote:i had enquired about the conversion from 2 performance shops the both rekon 1 week is all thats needed to complete and $9000

Have either of the shops you have contacted successfully done or even attempted to run a B-series motor etc in an E-Series.... NO. ask revhead_88 who did his, i cant remember the name of the place right now, but they do B-series motors and ECU's for $11600 complete (XR6T gear) Drive in SOHC, drive out DOHC Turbo

by **EFripin50&HSV** » December 13th, 2008, 5:16 am

Okay $11600 is a good price. I already had the suitable 5 spd gearbox installed already, so i didn't add that to the cost. I have see XR6T motors with gearboxes going for $5000 dollars in wrecking yards, thats at the time of the quotes i got for the conversions. $5000 is still cheaper then a new Vortech V1 supercharger that you have to get installed by a professional looking at about $7000-$8000. And that doesn't buy you the reliability of a ford built XR6T motor either.
Both work shops i spoke to have done the conversion on BA sixes into E-series Falcons and one has even fitted to an XH ute. I'LL GIVE YOU THE CONTACT DETAILS for one of the work shop after i get them again.

by **Commando** » December 13th, 2008, 6:58 am

Jesus, you've got money to burn! For $11600 you're better off actually getting a complete BA XR6T, as they're nearing that price in private sales (not to mention auctions)

Props to revhead_88's EB though, I love it.

by **edfairmont4.0** » December 13th, 2008, 10:04 am

EFripin50&HSV wrote:Okay $11600 is a good price. I already had the suitable 5 spd gearbox installed already, so i didn't add that to the cost. I have see XR6T motors with gearboxes going for $5000 dollars in wrecking yards, thats at the time of the quotes i got for the conversions. $5000 is still cheaper then a new Vortech V1 supercharger that you have to get installed by a professional looking at about $7000-$8000. And that doesn't buy you the reliability of a ford built XR6T motor either.
Both work shops i spoke to have done the conversion on BA sixes into E-series Falcons and one has even fitted to an XH ute. I'LL GIVE YOU THE CONTACT DETAILS for one of the work shop after i get them again.

You could get an Atomic AU motor for less then that and it would handle FUKLOADS more power....why the need for the DOHC its a wank thing fucking waste of money the SOHC motors do the same shit when you work them and they are cheaper why fucken bother... :roll:

by **EFripin50&HSV** » December 16th, 2008, 4:35 am

edfairmont4.0 I like to know the price on An AU Atomic motor already complete and how i can get one OR is an XR6T motor actually a more simpler
stress free way to go for an E-series Falcon. There's probably cheaper XR6T motors out there. when i priced These motors at $5000 that was over 12 months ago.
For me I like the idea of a Ford motor that was actually built for Boost and can handle well over 12psi with just the change of some valve springs and to fit is simple according to two work shops i have spoken too that have done the job. XR6T motors standard does do 240-245kw, that's at least 160kw-170kw to the rear tread. What do u reckon mate? I am interested about atomic motors for my EF as well though.http://www.eseries.com.au/posting.php?m ... ff71e053e#

by **Commando** » December 16th, 2008, 6:44 am

For me I like the idea of a Ford motor that was actually built for Boost

After reading this I switched off. Mate, have a look at all the Falcons on this site that are boosted & have standard bottom ends.

by **edfairmont4.0** » December 16th, 2008, 11:02 am

Commando wrote:
For me I like the idea of a Ford motor that was actually built for Boost

After reading this I switched off. Mate, have a look at all the Falcons on this site that are boosted & have standard bottom ends.

Exactly... Every 4.0L Is basically built for boost... If you want to boost a 4.0L for GOOD VALUE AU bottom end EF head.. AU MLS gasket and slap on 12-14psi if you blow that up you have tuned it BADLY...

by **EFripin50&HSV** » December 17th, 2008, 1:43 am

thats exactly my point the risk of blowing up a EF 6 because some cheap ass work shop tells u they be doin a good job supercharging ur motor but get some young apprentice to do the job. Plus not to metion once u blow up ur motor u have no ride for the family day out! no come on mate Think about heaps of stories of motors (ford or non ford) blowing up because their made to do boost performance when their not designed for it in the first place. Unless you go to a work shop with thr rep for this guid of thing such as Bob Remarno work shop and they charge you well over $10 000 for a proper built boosted 6. nup i Think XR6T is cheaper quicker and more reliable

by **Commando** » December 17th, 2008, 7:01 am

http://www.vicfords.com

by **AaronEF8** » December 17th, 2008, 10:13 am

Is there a beacon thats attracting egotistical dumbshits to this thread or something?

Which road should WORKD-6 take?

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