Bullbars to be Banned

by **92EBFAIRMONT** » January 25th, 2011, 8:36 pm

Here's an email I just received from ARB about the Australian Government planning to ban Bullbars, Nudge Bars and other attachments!
Don't know about you guys, but if I didn't have a bull bar on the 4Runner, when we got horibly bogged, we would've been stranded in the middle of nowhere at night. And then's there's the fact that they are an important safety item for rural driving.

"ARB, in conjunction with the Australian 4WD Industry Council has launched a national on-line public survey to collect information from the public about their use of bull bars and nudge bars.
The safety of Australian motorists that drive vehicles fitted with bull bars and nudge bars is threatened by proposed new Federal Government regulations, which are based on rules developed for the European environment and road conditions by the United Nations Economic Cooperation for Europe (UNECE).

The 4WD Industry Council wants up-to-date information about bull and nudge bars - also known as "vehicle front protection systems" (VFPS) - for its consultations with the Department of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development in Canberra about the proposed regulation. This regulation focuses on pedestrian safety - not vehicle and occupant safety.

The Department has now released a Regulation Impact Statement for Pedestrian Safety Standards for public consultation, which closes on 15 April 2011. This document includes extensive discussion on "VFPS" and contains options for the regulation of bull bars.

By completing the 4WD Industry Council's survey, participants will help meet the need for current accurate data on the use of bull and nudge bars. The Council hopes to learn more about vehicle types, driving patterns and critical safety issues, such as animal strikes and other impacts.

Adoption of this overseas rule would make it impossible in Australia to fit bull and nudge bars, which are designed to protect drivers and passengers in front end animal strikes and other impacts. It may also ban winches and driving lights.

The Federal Department has released the proposed regulation for a three month consultation period. We want to collect road users' views and report them as part of the industry response.

The survey takes only moments to complete and is totally confidential. We will add this new data to a report recently commissioned by the Council to study animal strikes on Australian roads.

These Council initiatives respond to the lack of uniform data about the estimated 25,000 to 30,000 vehicle-to-animal strikes occurring each year across Australia. We do not believe that good regulatory decisions can be made without proper research and without canvassing all key issues.

ARB encourages road users to complete the on-line survey as soon as possible. The Survey closes on 31 March 2011. For every person completing the questionnaire, the Council will donate $1 to the Royal Flying Doctor Service, to a maximum of $20,000."

Link to the Survey: http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/317270/Bu ... der-Threat

Thanks

by **LTDHO** » January 25th, 2011, 8:40 pm

I just read this on AFF and heard it on the radio this morning.

Bullbars are very useful for the vans an 4x4's throughout the CBD... You never know when a kangaroo will jump out!

by **089JAY** » January 25th, 2011, 8:42 pm

What a joke

EDIT: Check that link buddy

by **Hayden** » January 25th, 2011, 8:42 pm

maybe it'll be like a tow-bar situation... only having it on whilst needing it :roll:

by **92EBFAIRMONT** » January 25th, 2011, 8:45 pm

LTDHO wrote:I just read this on AFF and heard it on the radio this morning.

Bullbars are very useful for the vans an 4x4's throughout the CBD... You never know when a kangaroo will jump out!

Yeah fair enough, but banning them may save a few lives in the city, but it will make it a lot more dangerous for rural drivers, and a lot harder for people interested in off roading.

by **92EBFAIRMONT** » January 25th, 2011, 8:46 pm

089JAY wrote:What a joke

EDIT: Check that link buddy

Your right its not working...I'll try and fix it

by **holmsy** » January 25th, 2011, 8:48 pm

i think you will find most bullbars have been banned for years (depending on the vehicle they are put on)

things like 5 posters etc that dont follow the contour of the body and have points etc which can catch pedestrians if hit etc.

by **92EBFAIRMONT** » January 25th, 2011, 8:49 pm

The link is fixed

by **LTDHO** » January 25th, 2011, 8:56 pm

92EBFAIRMONT wrote:
LTDHO wrote:I just read this on AFF and heard it on the radio this morning.

Bullbars are very useful for the vans an 4x4's throughout the CBD... You never know when a kangaroo will jump out!

Yeah fair enough, but banning them may save a few lives in the city, but it will make it a lot more dangerous for rural drivers, and a lot harder for people interested in off roading.

I wonder what the radio is Metro to Rural for bull bars.

There are a fkn lot in and around the city.

Suppose it is protection for bad drivers.

by **089JAY** » January 25th, 2011, 8:59 pm

Now where will I mount my External Cage to

by **wicksy** » January 25th, 2011, 9:07 pm

**** that i will still be getting one! I am not driving from in the bush with no bullbar with massive Roos

by **KR1STO** » January 25th, 2011, 9:33 pm

What a load of shit.. I know I'd rather be behind a bull bar...
been in accidents with and without bull bars.. Got off alot better with the bar...

with bullbar, t boned a truck at 90kph

without bullbar, hit kangaroo at 100kph

and if you look very hard in this pic, or turn the brightness up.. you can see the fkin roo that decided to play chicken..

by **92EBFAIRMONT** » January 25th, 2011, 9:45 pm

Well there's the perfect proof that bullbars save more lives than they take away...

by **92EBFAIRMONT** » January 25th, 2011, 9:47 pm

Oh and BTW, you've had some bad luck with your hilux's! Two nice new model hilux's written off!

by **holmsy** » January 25th, 2011, 9:49 pm

not really.
it just shows that crumple zones and airbags do their jobs.

his still here so without a bullbar he still didn't die.

by **LTDHO** » January 25th, 2011, 9:53 pm

Ha ha, saves lives, what a fkn joke

by **92EBFAIRMONT** » January 25th, 2011, 9:54 pm

Yeah, but they're two hilux's of the same model, the one with a bullbar hit a truck and sustained the least amount of damage, but the one who hit a roo sustained more!

by **ronza** » January 25th, 2011, 9:55 pm

holmsy wrote:i think you will find most bullbars have been banned for years (depending on the vehicle they are put on)

things like 5 posters etc that dont follow the contour of the body and have points etc which can catch pedestrians if hit etc.

In wa and qld they banned bull bars like mine years ago but the very slight modifications made them legal again its a crock of shit how many cars hit kangaroos but this whole banning full stop off bullbars is crap yes mine looks like a show pony but has glanced a few roos at high speed with no damage to bar or car but without i may not have been telling this...

The government needs to take along hard look at themselves this is a serious issue and peoples lives are at risk ...

MY 2 CENTS....

by **holmsy** » January 25th, 2011, 9:56 pm

but ya still alive either way.

difference is if ya hit a person in both those cars.
the person has more chance of living if ya dont have a bullbar.

dont get me wrong im not against bullbars.

just against misinformation.

by **92EBFAIRMONT** » January 25th, 2011, 10:00 pm

holmsy wrote:but ya still alive either way.

difference is if ya hit a person in both those cars.
the person has more chance of living if ya dont have a bullbar.

dont get me wrong im not against bullbars.

just against misinformation.

You don't live in all cases...and it's the fact that your car sustains much less damage...
But your right a person has more chance of living if they're hit by a car with no bullbar, but I think there are more cases of people hitting roos than people being hit by bullbars, if you know what I'm saying...

by **dylby1** » January 25th, 2011, 10:08 pm

92EBFAIRMONT wrote:
holmsy wrote:but ya still alive either way.

difference is if ya hit a person in both those cars.
the person has more chance of living if ya dont have a bullbar.

dont get me wrong im not against bullbars.

just against misinformation.

You don't live in all cases...and it's the fact that your car sustains much less damage...
But your right a person has more chance of living if they're hit by a car with no bullbar, but I think there are more cases of people hitting roos than people being hit by bullbars, if you know what I'm saying...

you're forgetting that the government doesnt care about rural areas anywhere near as much as city areas...

by **92EBFAIRMONT** » January 25th, 2011, 10:12 pm

True.....

by **holmsy** » January 25th, 2011, 10:13 pm

and your forgetting that the bulk of people are in city areas

by **El_Poochino** » January 25th, 2011, 10:20 pm

Bull bars stop crumple zones from functioning, which spread the impact over a longer duration of time. Even a few fractions of a second can drastically reduce the energy delivered to the passenger/hit run victim and save the goverment a few toe tags.

End of the day, they are banned from cap and major cities where you don't complain about hitting Nana and having a cry cause your radiator is shagged.

by **Nikk O'lass** » January 27th, 2011, 5:15 pm

El_Poochino wrote:Bull bars stop crumple zones from functioning

Wrong.

by **mygreened** » January 27th, 2011, 5:40 pm

I was out in the bush queens birthday last year in my hilux on a dirt road coming up to a blind right bend a guy in a patrol came into the corner too fast. he hit the brakes locked up & slammed into us if it wasn't for both bullbars my hilux & his patrol would have been on a tow truck to get home as for the city maybe people shouldn't walk out onto the road where ever they feel like they should use the crossings provided. Also not too long ago my mate smashed into the side of a truck in his patrol truck pulled out infront of him in the wet he hit it at about 65-70kph if he didn't have a bullbar the side of the truck would of crushed his head his bullbar slammed into the chassis of the truck & stopped his 4wd with the side of the truck just infront of his windscreen. if he had no bullbar the bonnet would have slid under the chassis & the side of the truck would crushed him.

by **Dezza** » January 30th, 2011, 7:58 pm

I've been away so haven't been on here for days but saw the thread on AFF.

It's of big interest to me because I work for ARB, in the production of polyurethane components for bullbars. If bullbars get banned, it would have a massive effect on my job. We'd have to rely on exports, and it could seriously damage the company that I'm very happy to work for, and I could potentially lose my job. This is just another example of politicians who've never gone anywhere near a rough road, thinking they know it all, and trying to implement laws that just won't work. Complete BS

by **nstg8a** » January 30th, 2011, 8:17 pm

ronza wrote:
holmsy wrote:i think you will find most bullbars have been banned for years (depending on the vehicle they are put on)

things like 5 posters etc that dont follow the contour of the body and have points etc which can catch pedestrians if hit etc.

In wa and qld they banned bull bars like mine years ago but the very slight modifications made them legal again its a crock of shit how many cars hit kangaroos but this whole banning full stop off bullbars is crap yes mine looks like a show pony but has glanced a few roos at high speed with no damage to bar or car but without i may not have been telling this...

The government needs to take along hard look at themselves this is a serious issue and peoples lives are at risk ...

MY 2 CENTS....

peoples lives are at risk, from that exact type of fitment of bullbars. that sort of bullbar will turn a minor fender bender into a serious accident.

say you lose concentration and go through a giveway sign, you hit the picks but dont avoid hitting the drivers door of the car going through... a bullbar like that will act like a can opener and punch straight through any side intrusion bars, and i doubt side impact airbags would help either.

modern cars have pedestrian impact adr's they have to comply with, yet its ok to slap a massive piece of unforgiving alloy or steel across the front? :banghead:

i live 12 km's from the brisbane cbd, yet i see bullbars like that every single day... yup, gotta watch out for skippy round here if you live and drive in a predominantly rural area then i can understand it, but in a heavily populated urban area its just plain dangerous.

by **dylby1** » January 30th, 2011, 8:23 pm

nstg8a wrote:
ronza wrote:
holmsy wrote:i think you will find most bullbars have been banned for years (depending on the vehicle they are put on)

things like 5 posters etc that dont follow the contour of the body and have points etc which can catch pedestrians if hit etc.

In wa and qld they banned bull bars like mine years ago but the very slight modifications made them legal again its a crock of shit how many cars hit kangaroos but this whole banning full stop off bullbars is crap yes mine looks like a show pony but has glanced a few roos at high speed with no damage to bar or car but without i may not have been telling this...

The government needs to take along hard look at themselves this is a serious issue and peoples lives are at risk ...

MY 2 CENTS....

peoples lives are at risk, from that exact type of fitment of bullbars. that sort of bullbar will turn a minor fender bender into a serious accident.

say you lose concentration and go through a giveway sign, you hit the picks but dont avoid hitting the drivers door of the car going through... a bullbar like that will act like a can opener and punch straight through any side intrusion bars, and i doubt side impact airbags would help either.

modern cars have pedestrian impact adr's they have to comply with, yet its ok to slap a massive piece of unforgiving alloy or steel across the front?

i live 12 km's from the brisbane cbd, yet i see bullbars like that every single day... yup, gotta watch out for skippy round here if you live and drive in a predominantly rural area then i can understand it, but in a heavily populated urban area its just plain dangerous.

to be fair there is a fair bit of wildlife around his joint, i see roos and stuff near the road everytime i go there. if i lived where he does and had a ute id have one too

by **nstg8a** » January 30th, 2011, 8:26 pm

dylby1 wrote:to be fair there is a fair bit of wildlife around his joint, i see roos and stuff near the road everytime i go there. if i lived where he does and had a ute id have one too

yeah, and as i said, if you live in a rural area then i can understand the need for a bullbar

by **El_Poochino** » January 30th, 2011, 8:38 pm

Nikk O'lass wrote:
El_Poochino wrote:Bull bars stop crumple zones from functioning

Wrong.

A bullbar is designed to protect the car in low speed impacts or animal strikes aka the ultimate hit run machine by making the body more ridgid. The opposite if what a crumple zone is designed to do, which is the controlled failure of a car's structure in order to dissapate the energy of a collision in a more effective manner to reduce the impact on the occupant/pedestrian.

Bullbars are only useful when you are in the middle of nowhere. And that is where they should stay.

How a bullbar can affect the safety of you and your passengers

These are the reasons why a fitting a bullbar could make your vehicle less safe for you and your passengers.

Airbags may not work properly
Vehicle manufacturers conduct considerable research to ensure airbags will inflate properly to protect the vehicle’s occupants. If the bullbar is fitted to the vehicle, the secondary restraint system, such as an airbag, may not inflate correctly in a crash, and cause additional injuries to its occupants.

Crumple zones may not protect you either
The front structure and panels of a vehicle are intended to crumple in a collision to minimise the likelihood of injury to its occupants. However, a bullbar may reduce the effectiveness of crumple zones and collapsible steering columns.

Side impact crashes are more serious
Occupants of a vehicle hit, in a side impact collision, by a vehicle fitted with a bullbar, are more likely to be seriously injured. Also the forces exerted by the vehicle with a bullbar, particularly a 4WD, will impact higher up the other vehicle, and closer to the chests and heads of its occupants.

The car headlights can be obscured
The bullbar or fittings should not obscure the headlights, parking lights, turning indicators or any other lights on the vehicle.

You may not see as much as you should
The bullbar should not obstruct the vision of the driver. It should also not project further beyond the front of the vehicle than is necessary. When sitting in the driver’s seat, in the rearmost position, the driver must be able to see, either the surface of the road 11 metres in front of the front of the vehicle , or the front edge of the vehicle, when looking across the top of the bullbar.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Saf ... llbars.htm

http://www.acrs.org.au/collegepolicies/ ... lbars.html

by **YBHVE4** » January 30th, 2011, 9:12 pm

survey done.

i understand whats been said and i guess it fair for the toorak tractors out in the city each day but this rule to totally ban for all im against.

I have had 3 instantances that my bullbar on my landcruiser in the past 6months has saved me and allowed me to walk away with no damage or injuries and im not willing to remove it unless I had no choice.

Yes its my everyday vehicle but myself and my family love to take any opportunity we have to get away and this vehicle is equipped the way we want for our safety. Plus if the bullbar goes I lose my winch :-(

by **phunkshun** » January 30th, 2011, 9:31 pm

Ronza can i ask is that a steal or alloy bullbar? Most 4x4s have steal bullbars but i have a feeling that ronzas' bullbar on the AU maybe an Alloy so it is different again, but the torak (?) tractors are what i think is the problem were the only offroad or rural they see is the nature strip. this ban thing has been and gone before a few years ago never happend.

by **Punisher** » January 30th, 2011, 11:17 pm

This argument comes and goes like the rain in Melbourne.

Over 10 years ago, I was driving a mate's Range Rover with a steel Bullbar...

...something similar to this, through the city, when some dickhead RUNS out onto the road in front of me. Needless to say, they don't have the best of brakes and I hit him. Scared the shit out of me.
An hour or so later, after lengthy discussions with the paramedics and the cops, they ended up giving him a ride to the hospital for a broken leg and a FINE for jaywalking within 15m from a set of traffic lights!

Range Rover with Bullbar: 1
Dickhead running onto the road between cars to catch his train: 0

If a stupid topic such as this one can "stir the waters" about banning them or not, why not BAN every car over the size of a sedan? My case: How many reports have there been on the news in the last couple of years of people getting seriously injured from vehicles with bullbars? Now, how many reports have there been in the news about people reversing in their driveways and accidentally hitting or running over a child/infant? So far, on my count in the past 2 years, I've found 9 reports. But, does the government say anything about this? Will they ban every automobile bigger than a stationwagon? Why not make it mandatory, that all new cars sold shall be equipped with, at least, reverse park sensors and cameras for the luxo models.

My point is, instead of them saying they'll "ban bullbars", why not have what happened to me be the posterchild? A TAC ad, showing someone running along the footpath, looks and tries to cross the street. Cuts between to parked cars and WHAM! gets knocked the **** out. He gets put into hospital for busted legs, can't work, the driver of the car has to take stress leave and seek counselling. The message for this campaign can be "STOP, LOOK, LISTEN"(?!)

Oh wait, they teach you that in primary school!

by **TUFED6** » January 31st, 2011, 3:02 am

Theres really only a couple of things that can be done to satisfy everyone.

1. Allow people that LIVE in rural areas to continue to use them on public roads (eg, not metro areas)
2. For everyone else, ban- make them removable (much like many tow bar tongues)

I dont really agree with people driving 4wd's on the road anyway. They have terrible road holding, stopping and safety systems and people driving them every day in a metro area is just a wank. If you love driving off road get a second car (the govt should introduce something similar to recreational reg for 4wd's...)

by **LTDHO** » January 31st, 2011, 7:38 am

In almost 20 years of driving, I can't say I have ever need the use of a bullbar. My driving is not limited to metro, like a lot of delivery vans and 'Toorak Taxis'.

I have see cases where a 4x4 has clipped a tree or fence post and the entire front had top be replaced due to the fitment of a bullbar, whereas it would have only needed a headlight and minor repair of bumper and bonnet.

by **Dansedgli** » January 31st, 2011, 7:53 am

Your Sierra didn't need a winch? I thought you went 4 wheel driving in it?

In my 3 years of proper four wheel driving my car hit 3 trees. Each time I got to drive home because the bullbar stopped the tree going through my radiator. Twice I wasn't driving. :/

It'd be good if they could invent a test that qualified you to have a bullbar so city twits don't use them when they don't need them. But that'd be too hard.

by **mad_keen** » January 31st, 2011, 8:34 am

This wouldnt happen if stupid fucks in the city didnt buy 4x4's to cruise around and get the shopping and pick up the kids from school

by **nstg8a** » January 31st, 2011, 1:57 pm

Dansedgli wrote:Your Sierra didn't need a winch? I thought you went 4 wheel driving in it?

In my 3 years of proper four wheel driving my car hit 3 trees. Each time I got to drive home because the bullbar stopped the tree going through my radiator. Twice I wasn't driving. :/

i had my patrol off road heaps, smacked into a few things and never really hurt it. no bullbar though.

but i did have a small inconspicuous pto hanging off the front :grin:

Dansedgli wrote:It'd be good if they could invent a test that qualified you to have a bullbar so city twits don't use them when they don't need them. But that'd be too hard.

thats exactly what they should do, but as you said, its too hard.

by **Nikk O'lass** » January 31st, 2011, 4:22 pm

El_Poochino wrote:
Nikk O'lass wrote:
El_Poochino wrote:Bull bars stop crumple zones from functioning

Wrong.

A bullbar is designed to protect the car in low speed impacts or animal strikes aka the ultimate hit run machine by making the body more ridgid. The opposite if what a crumple zone is designed to do, which is the controlled failure of a car's structure in order to dissapate the energy of a collision in a more effective manner to reduce the impact on the occupant/pedestrian.

Still wrong, bullbars are designed to crumple and work with the crumple zones, they are tested for this. Bull bars have weakpoints in them and deformable brackets so in a collision, the cars SRS systems and crumple zones are still effective. All a bull bar is doing is offering is a sacrifical section to take the majority of the impact.

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