Trying to fly on a budget (new project).

by **datsonovic** » October 10th, 2011, 6:26 pm

Hey Falcophiles,

I am a little new to falcon ownership, although I used to own a `79 LTD (the missouri) she was a lot of car for a 18 year old dole bludger to try and keep running and I eventually sold it for $1500.00 (one of the worst mistakes i ever made : 351 clevo, c4, disc to disc LSD 9 inch ex premiere dept. car) I would have made twice maybe tripple that if had stripped and wrecked her.

I know I will probably rub a few of you the wrong way with what i am proposing, But I am after some much needed advice and "boosted falcon.net" sounded like the perfect place.

I have recently got my hands on a 1 owner `97 (EL?) Falcon with just under 200,000 k on the clock, I got it for $850.00 and it is pretty good (it doesn`t leave any oil on the driveway and the tranny seems perfect).

I am going to remove the motor and tranny and fit it into my `78 datsun 280c, I was thinking of going down nissan RB25-30, or the V-6 holden commie route but as they say "there is no subsitute for cubes" and after all falcon parts are a lot cheaper at the local repco.

I fitted my 280c with a garrett to4 turbo and straight gas setup (thankyou Mr. Rudd) a couple of years ago, and it goes like stink but I don`t think the tranny is going to last much longer and it tends to rev a bit hard on the highway (4000 rpm at 100KM/H).

I am planning running a straight gas set up using my existing 110Ltr gas tank and Gas research 450 mixer with an extra gas line from the tank running to a second gas research B2 converter, this will be running through a blow through turbo set up using (as big as i can fit) intercooler with maybe 15-20 psi boost.
I am also planning to fit an after-market trans. cooler fitted bosuku style to the front of the old girl hoping this might extend the life of the four speed auto, and use the 15inch steel rims (they fit the nissan 5 stud pattern) wheels plus the tyres are brand new.
I am also hoping to use the falcons front seats as the original datsun items are are a little worn out. and maybe the falcon diff and brake setup.

I am pretty handy when it comes to the engineering side of things (I have made up several turbo inlet and exhaust setups as well as custom engine mounts and other bits and bobs in the past).

My main concern is when it comes to the "getting it to all work together" side of things my main concern is the ignition side of things i`m thinking of using a after market "crane" HI6 coil and ignition system, or somthing similar.

I`m hoping to maybe get 250-300 rwkw. and 20-25 lt/100ltrs fuel economy (on gas).

Am I on the right path or am I being completly un-realistic?

Any and all negitive or positive comments and ideas would be greatly appiciated.

This project is GOING to happen, I will post pics when I start (4-6 weeks).

Please offer up any links that my be realivent.

Cheers,

Datsonovic.

Link to my 280c before gas conversion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw8VmaimWGc

by **wombi90** » October 10th, 2011, 6:43 pm

Will it fit in the engine bay? The motors are quite long I know someone put one in a ford courier and had to recess the firewall

by **datsonovic** » October 10th, 2011, 6:51 pm

From my initial mesurments it will be tight, but i`m pretty sure i can get it to fit, i might have to cut and shut a new sump-pan though. and as a wise man once told me " If it don`t fit.... Make it fit."

by **wombi90** » October 10th, 2011, 6:54 pm

I'll get a link of the build I was talking about

by **wombi90** » October 10th, 2011, 7:00 pm

http://downundertruckin.com/forums/view ... &hilit=Omg

Might help might not anyway goodluck

by **datsonovic** » October 10th, 2011, 7:05 pm

Cheers, isn`t the ford courrier a mazda with a four cylinder motor?. My 280c has a nissan 2800cc ohc l-series six, she`s a pretty big donk. I can see how it would be a challenge to fit the falcon motor into four cylinder engine bay. but i have seen a supra twin turbo in a hi-lux without cutting the fire wall. My datsun has no struts and pleanty of room at the front of the motor.
Thanks,

Datsonovic.

by **InfernalTyrant** » October 10th, 2011, 7:17 pm

If this works it will be fucking awesome.

by **datsonovic** » October 10th, 2011, 7:25 pm

Thanks mate,

I`m just waiting for some better weather to get this project on the go, I`m sure it is going to work.

Do you know how much power/torque the EL trans. can take?

Cheers,

Datsonovic.

G O T H E D A T !!

by **datsonovic** » October 10th, 2011, 7:29 pm

I just checked out the courier link, I had to register but that`s not a bad thing, they seem to have some good stuff there. He seems to have done a lot more cutting and shutting that I`ll need to do.

Thanks for the link mate.

Datsonovic.

G O T H E D A T !!

by **datsonovic** » November 15th, 2011, 4:18 pm

Hey all,

As the day of the big conversion gets closer I have started to wonder about a few things and was hoping someone might be able to shed a little light on a couple of subjects.

As i will be running gas only and a stand alone ignition system I will not be using the standard ECU, I understand the transmission utilises signals from the ECU to control the shifting pattern. Is there any way I can bypass the ECU and still have a functioning auto?

Does the speedometer get it`s signal from the transmission via a mechanical cable or is it some sort of electronic setup?

What size are the exhaust ports? as i will probably need to order the steam pipe bends to make up the exhaust manifold.

cheers and thanks for any help..

by **Sunboost** » November 15th, 2011, 4:32 pm

Earlier 4L's (EA-EB1) and all E-Series 5L's ran a separate TCU to control the transmission. From memory it's pretty stand-alone and wont need the other ECU in place to operate. I have wired one in before and it's fairly straight forward if you're handy with basic wiring and diagrams.

The speedometer signal isn't through a cable, it's through a little electronic module called a speedo transducer.

Dunno what size the exhaust ports are off the top of my head, but they vary from EA-AU. if you're so close to doing the conversion and you're pretty handy with engineering stuff like you said, I would have assumed you'd have the donk there ready for measurements etc.

GL.

by **datsonovic** » November 16th, 2011, 4:54 pm

Thanks for the information mate,

So from what I understand a TCU from a 4 speed EA or EB1 could be modified to operate an EL 4 speed ?

If this is so, What am I looking for when I go to the the scrappers yard ?

What inputs does the TCU need to operate ?. (The auto in my 280c only required vacuum signal and a kick down switch mounted on the floor under the throttle.)

Is the speedo transducer part of the TCU or is it mounted to the transmission? (i`d really like to have a working speedo in this car as the sniffities need to find a couple of million dollars this year, and have dropped the urbane speed limit to 50, and ping you at 55).

I`m thinking that I will get this set-up up and running N/A at first, so fabrication of the turbo manifolds will probably be happening in the new year, but from my mesurments from the outside of the exhaust manifold I think I will build it out of 1.5 inch ID steam pipe ( does this sound about right )?

I`m also thinking of utilising the rear axel form the EL, at the moment it is a single spinner. Can I fit an LSD from the XR6 or somthing to the standard housing?

I`ve done a few missions in the doner car now and it seems a shame to scrap it once I`ve done with the conversion (It is a one owner 7/97 EL GLi with 187,000 km on the clock) and if anyone would like to pick over it`s carcass when i`m done, you are more than welcome to (suspension bits and pieces, doors, interior trim, ECU, panels, an so on).

What sort of turbos have other users been sucsessful with at getting reasonable response and low down torque with these motors, I`m not too interested in revving the piss out of motors, and have found if you keep the max rpm`s to 10 percent below the factory redline you can run some pretty serious boost and get some silly performance without breaking things. (I have a `67 datsun 1000 with an A15 running 120rwkw @ 23 PSI @ 5800 RPM and have done so for over 10 years on one stock bottom end).

As always thanks for any positive or negitive responses, and and extra informaton/links will be greatly appriciated.

Cheers,

by **SnipeZ** » November 16th, 2011, 5:16 pm

Yeah lsd center fits in yhe dyd housing

by **datsonovic** » December 16th, 2011, 2:01 pm

Hey All,

After a couple of weeks of dicking about looking around for a T.C.U from an EA-EB1 I have all but given up on this idea,
I posted a WTB on this site which resulted in nought,
I called a few scrappers and most didn`t have a clue what I was on about and with O.H and S. laws the way they are don`t want me picking over any cars in their yards.
One guy said he could get me one for $250.00 ( I know these guys have got to make a living but sheeze ),
A guy that I was talking to at a job site said he knew of a couple of abandoned EA`s, but I don`t like like the idea of going into these areas and getting the crap beaten out me ( and technically it would be theft ).

So I have decided to try and run the factory ECU just for the transmission.
I was looking into the wiring diagram and it seems as a minimum i need to run: TPS, engine speed, vehicle speed, trans. temp., and power/econ. switch.

Will the ECU still operate properly if I disconect: fuel pump, injectors,body controll..... ect.?

The conversion has been pushed back a few weeks due to punters wanting to pay me big $$$ to do work over the christmas/ new years break, plus I have quite a lot of work booked in over jan/feb.

The chook tin has rego on it `til the end of jan. so I think I won`t be doing too much to it `til then. I might start stripping the 280C engine bay and getting it prepared in the next few weeks though.

I`ve got all the steam pipe bends ordered and they should be here next week but I won`t be doing too much with them `til the motor and trans. is out of the falcon.

I have put a few bids on a few crane HI6 ignition systems but seem to get piped by a couple of dollars every time. I can get one locally for $450.00 or so (is it worth it)??

Cheers and thanks for any comments you might want to ad.

by **vegabass** » December 16th, 2011, 3:01 pm

Hey, I think I have a V8 trans contoller from a NF V8 fairlane. I cant see why it wouldnt be suitable.

Ill send you a PM anyway.

by **datsonovic** » May 23rd, 2012, 2:34 pm

So it has taken a little longer than first thought, But I have just done the first test fit of the EL 4.0 into uncle cedric (`78 Datsun 280C) and it seems that with a little engineering it should be quite a good fit.

I`ll have to make up a new sump and engine / transmission mounts as well as modify the drive shaft to suit the datto center bearing and "massage" the trans. tunnel a little.

I have decided not to run A/C or power steering, as I want to keep the engine bay as un-cluttered as possible. This leads me to my first question:

What are my chances of converting the EL 4.0 to run a V-belt instead of the flat (slurpintine) belts to run the alternator and water pump? I think I might have to run a different water pump as it is driven from the back of the standard belt and runs in the opposite direction to the crank and alternator.

Would the crank pulley, alternator, and water pump for an earlier model falcon (XE-XF) fit the EL 4.0?

Cheers,

Datsonovic.

by **EFFalcon** » May 23rd, 2012, 2:43 pm

with regards to running a V-belt, just get the parts from an EA-ED Falcon, which all run the 3 belt system.

by **needfordspeed** » May 23rd, 2012, 2:43 pm

You could run the EA-ED style setup, you will need to change the balancer, water pump and alternator to the older style ones (or just the pulleys) the timing case is also different if the motor is going to be outta the car i'd change it when you pull the balancer (pull sump off at the same time to modify)

by **datsonovic** » May 23rd, 2012, 4:58 pm

Thanks Guys, That helps quite alot.

So if I`m looking for a EA-ED, Do either of these motors have a distributor with mechanical advance?, I ask because the ignition system I`m looking at (Crane HI-6) does not seem to have a facility to advance the timing through the rev range, and I think the EL distributor is a locked unit with no mechanical advance.

I could be wrong about the Crane ignition but from what I have read it seems that it uses the signal from the ECU.

Any other thoughts on an ignition system with a built in advance facility?, I am looking at a ignition only system as I`ll be running a gas research gas only throttle body.

I have got a transmision controller from a V8 fairlane (NL?), but it did not come with any wiring or plug and I`m struggling to find any info / wiring diagrams for this set-up. I have spent a couple of hours at the state library reference section looking into various workshop manuals but can only find very crude diagrams with no reference to which pins go to what, Can anyone give me any clues on how to wire this thing up or what workshop manuals to look for?

Cheers,

Datsonovic.

by **needfordspeed** » May 23rd, 2012, 5:03 pm

I'm not 100% sure on this, but IIRC XE-XF 6's had mechanical advance, i'm sure someone else will confirm this though.

Also, regarding the EA-ED setup I have everything you will need if you're in Melb you can come pick it up for cheap.

by **datsonovic** » May 23rd, 2012, 5:15 pm

Cheers Mate,

I`m in Tassie so it could be a little hard to get there to pick it up but thanks anyway.

My Dad used to have a wagon full of XE/XF motors and other parts but sold it all to the scrapper a few years ago.

Anyone in Tassie interested in some beer money for some Falcon bits?

Cheers,

Datsonovic.

by **datsonovic** » August 21st, 2012, 1:31 pm

Hey Guys, Just thught I`d check in.

Phase 1 of the project is getting close to completion, A few details have since changed,

I have decided to retain the standard pulley system and just use a shorter drive belt ( I wasn`t too keen on using XE-XF gear as I belive the el alternator to be a superior unit),

I have also decided to run a Davies Craig electric water pump and controller ( I have gutted the standard water pump and removed the drive pulley.)

I have ditched the idea of running a TCU and decided to try and get the standard ECU to work ( it will be only used for ignition control and transmission control) hopefuly it will operate with only TPS,MAP snesor, knock sensor, speed sensor, pwr/econ. switch?.

I have fabricated the engine mounts, transmission mount, trans tunnel, drive shaft, inlet plenum, oil pick-up, and sump plus a few other bits and bobs.

So most of the easy stuff is sorted now I have to try and sort out the electrical side of things, I`m hoping that i will just be a case of powering up the ECU and retaining the rest of the standard datsun electrics, but things are never that easy.

I have had a little bit of trouble with the sump gasket as I cut and shut the sump with the standard gasket in place and the only replacement gasket I could find was a cork three piece item ( 1-2mm) as opposed to the original one piece rubber one ( 5-6mm) and as such the bottom of the sump is hitting the oil pump and not sealing around the front of the motor. I think im going to have to massage the sump a little to get some clearance (Damn it!).

Does anyone know of a supplier of the original sump gasket, I have tried Repco,Sparco,Bursons, Ebay, I even tried Ford spare parts and they told me that it had been deleted.?

So with a bit of luck and a fair breeze I should have it running in the next few weeks.

Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appriciated.

Cheers.

by **SnipeZ** » August 21st, 2012, 1:38 pm

Motor looks so bare with no accessories lol
As for the sump gasket they just stopped making them. Could you use the original with a bit of silicon to help make it seal any better?

Cheers

by **datsonovic** » August 21st, 2012, 1:56 pm

I have thought about that but someone has molested the end (half round) bits pretty badly. I might try and get a bit creative with some silicone and see how it goes.

Cheers.

by **SnipeZ** » August 21st, 2012, 4:58 pm

Or even use silicon all over and don't use the gasket

Cheers

by **SNR** » August 22nd, 2012, 7:49 pm

I've got TCUs here. Two or three I reckon.

PM me if you are interested.

by **galapogos01** » August 22nd, 2012, 8:01 pm

Project looks great! Let us know if you need a J3 Chip to disable Smartlock!

by **datsonovic** » August 22nd, 2012, 8:08 pm

Cheers mate, I have a TCU but I think I will try and get the original ECU to work as I will need some sort of ignition control aswell as transmision control. But thanks anyway. Cheers.

by **datsonovic** » November 6th, 2012, 8:11 pm

So the breeze hasn`t been as fair as would have hoped, but the project is slowly getting to the end of "phase 1".

I have changed my mind AGAIN and decided to use a seperate trans. computer.

I`ve sorted what wires go where but am a little miffed about the pin numbering into the trans. computer as the trans. computers I have got did not come with the original plug.

I suspect the pin numbers run 1-15 left to right on top and 16-30 on the bottom but am unsure. I have the factory manuals but they don`t seem to have the pin number layout.

I don`t want to destroy the trans. computer by wiring it up wrong,

So if anyone has any ideas about the pin numbers, I am going to use a EB trans. computer but I also have a NL fairlane (V8) computer aswell but I think they are pretty much the same?

Can anyone offer any Ideas?

Cheers.

G