New Rally Series for EA - EL Falcons & VN - VS Commodores 20

by **ernysp76** » July 9th, 2008, 1:08 pm

Re: Formation of a Commodore / Falcon series within the Victorian Rally Championship for 2009.

Could you please pass this information on to your membership.

On the 26th July there will be a meeting (venue to be announced based on RSVP) to discuss the formation of a new Series under the Production Rally Car Class for the Victorian Rally Championship.

The aim of this series is to allow people to particpate in rallying while minimising their cost. This will be achieved through a series based on the following cars:

VN – VS Commodores

EA – EL Series Falcons

Issues of partity between the makes will be developed in the rules for the series and as a result of back to back testing by two high level rally drivers. The series will be for the 6 cylinder versions of each make and will allow certain freedoms but also restrict modifications to contain costs. Cars will be allowed freedoms in Brake pad material, dampers and springs and interior setup such as seats, exhaust freedoms beyond the first manifold joint, air intake freedoms forward of the throttle body etc.

All cars will be fitted with appropriate roll cage to a design determine in the rules and unless speficfied in the series rules must comply with CAMS NCR’s for a Production Rally Car.

Regards

John Ernst

Series Co-ordiantor

Commodore / Falcon Rally Series

0429 007080
Could those wishing to attend RSVP by PM, please feel free to forward this to anyone else you feel needs to know.

by **Commando** » July 9th, 2008, 3:01 pm

Welcome to the forums John, thanks for posting here!

Are there restrictions to the engine itself? IE if a team purchases an EA with a dead 3.9L CFI motor (120kw-spec), can this motor be replaced with a 3.9L MPFI motor (139kw-spec) which was also available in the EA range? Or say a 4.0L BBM motor (164kw-spec) from the EF-EL range?

Also, how about things like cam changes?

And with the driveline... can non-standard diff ratios be used (such as say 3.7s out of an R31 Skyline, which ran the same diff centre as Commodore and Falcon models but with different ratios), and centre modifications such as a LOKKA?

....................................................................................................................................

Team ESOC has a good ring to it guys, if a budget could be figured out (car purchase, CAMS NCRs, transport, consumables such as tyres, brake pads, spares, etc), this could be something awesome to get into

Or (probably much more realistically) maybe we could help sponsor an E-Series driver in the series & have the website URL & turbo bird logos on an EA-EL rally car?

by **pHaT`eL** » July 9th, 2008, 3:22 pm

If only I hadnt sold my EA.. Ive though about doing this with a mate who runs in Autocross style events. All he runs is a 5spd 86 Skyline with a minispool, reckons its tonnes of fun!

by **ernysp76** » July 9th, 2008, 4:31 pm

All these issues would need to be discussed at the meeting or if you have suggestions on how it could work please bring them along. I will provide you with a link to the Hyundai Excel Series (don't laugh) this is enourmously popular for a number of reasons, a) it is cheap and easy to get into b) generally the best driver wins c) the cars a newish d) parity and cost are tightly controlled through the use of standard drivetrain.

Remember it is a series to encourge you to run, if you can't get out there in a EA S pack for under 8K I'll go hee. So in answer to the questions think about the aims it is not to get a power advantage, I can tell you now a Falcon or Commodore is not the ideal rally car BUT they will be fun!!! Coming to grips (grip being the operatative word) with cars will be hard enough as we all learn. If you want to see how they go there is already a EF that has been running for some time in the VRC and doing reasonably well it will be in the 4th round of the Victorian Rally Championship up at Rawson (just north of Moe in Victoria) Saturday week be busy all day from about 9am till 7pm.

Link to Hyundai Series Regs: http://www.excelrally.com.au/forum/foru ... y.php?f=23

Thanks for the welcome.

regards

John Ernst
0429007080

by **Malakai** » July 9th, 2008, 4:42 pm

Awesome... get a manual EF with cam, exhaust, ECU, some thought put into the suspension and it would be wicked fun. If you break something it would be cheap and easy to fix.

by **Commando** » July 9th, 2008, 4:56 pm

I'm based in Gippsland so I doubt I would be able to attend the July 26 meeting

BUT, I live in Mowell so I'll be sure to keep Saturday 19th free to see the EF in action!

Hopefully the club will discuss this at length ASAP

I'll have a read through the Hyundai Series Regs later in the week

Thanks once again to giving us a heads-up about this event John. $8k sounds like a very reasonable budget, considering our membership base I'm sure something of that magnitude could possibly be raised (or as mentioned, a lesser amount raised, helping to sponsor another rally driver with our club name/logos/URL plastered on their car)

by **AaronEF8** » July 9th, 2008, 5:27 pm

Interesting proposal.

I've been looking at the Excel series for a while now as an entry into rallying, E-Series would be even better, I already know something about them, plus if you crash, you'll just knock down 1/2 a forest, dent 2 panels and drive off.

I can picture Commodores parked 200m after jumps with the struts poking through the bonnet already

Having our own car would be awesome, the hard part is the logistics of running a race team. Things like getting a damaged car home, pit crew, transporting spares/parts, accomodation. All easy enough stuff to work out, but you don't want to jump in half-heartedly.

Oh, and finding a nutter that can look down and read a piece of paper while sideways at 150+ with trees 1m away each side will be challenging

It really depends on what parity adjustments are made to the cars to decide what would be best. IE if a BBM motor/T5 and EF K-frame can go into an EA, I think that would be the way to go. Otherwise an EF with gutted doors and pillars would be the GO I reckon.

Thanks again for the info John. Is there a website that will have news/updates as they come to hand?

by **Commando** » July 9th, 2008, 6:08 pm

Having our own car would be awesome, the hard part is the logistics of running a race team. Things like getting a damaged car home, pit crew, transporting spares/parts, accomodation. All easy enough stuff to work out, but you don't want to jump in half-heartedly.

I'd imagine the car (damaged or otherwise) would be trailered to events. Meh, just hire a car trailer for the weekend & get a Windsor-powered falcon to tow it (

)

Spares/parts? Get an I6-powered falcon (

) + a box trailer.

Accommodation? Cheap motels or caravan parks or charitable E-Series members in the area. For example IF we were entering next year & there was a stage at Rawson, kents could stay at my place

I reckon a dedicated driver, navigator, & pit crew would be the hardest part.

by **EFFalcon** » July 9th, 2008, 6:20 pm

would be awesome to have the financial backing to do it.

by **Xpfalcon170** » July 9th, 2008, 6:22 pm

damn! why can't this be in nsw aswell. thats it, moving to melbourne

by **Steady** » July 9th, 2008, 6:29 pm

I'd chuck in support. Crew, driver, navigator whatever.
I'd love to get into proper motorsport.
I dunno how we'd go doing it as a club, we can't even decide on meet point location for a cruise

But I think if a few serious members got together a car could be fielded.

by **[Sterling]** » July 9th, 2008, 6:37 pm

i would be interested......in showing up a drinking

by **someLS1** » July 9th, 2008, 6:42 pm

Steady wrote:I'd chuck in support. Crew, driver, navigator whatever.
I'd love to get into proper motorsport.
I dunno how we'd go doing it as a club, we can't even decide on meet point location for a cruise
But I think if a few serious members got together a car could be fielded.

Im in Jared lets buy a VS and im serious lol! ive always wanted to do something like this

I just saw its limited to 6 cyl so maybe id go an ef-el in that case ....

by **Commando** » July 9th, 2008, 6:53 pm

I've had a read thru this PDF http://www.excelrally.com.au/forum/atta ... 1172384687

If this EA-EL VN-VS series were to be very similar to the Hyundai series, it states the following regarding engine mods (I'll reword to suit e-series vehicles)

EDIT - all changes I have made to the Hyundai Rules PDF are highlighted in bold red. My additional comments are in italics. These are NOT the rules for this proposed upcoming EA-EL VN-VS series, just my guess at some of them. The 26/7 meeting mentioned by the OP is about discussing these rules.

All vehicles must be standard & comply with the Falcon Factory Workshop Manuals for any variations. Parts from any E-Series model may be used upon another vehicle, as long as the part(s) can be clearly identified as a standard E-Series replacement part. The following components are free or may be modified from standard, as described in the eligibility requirements and or build manual:

^^^ EF-EL std XR6 engine, T5, 3.45 diff in EA s-pack?

1. ENGINE
a. Spark Plugs & High Tension Leads.
b. A replacement fuel regulator may be installed to allow better control of fuel supply. <-- XR reg?
c. Gear selector mechanism may be modified to remove free play and improve gear selection. <-- rip-shift?
d. The Exhaust System after the exit from the Exhaust Manifold is free. The exhaust manifold MUST remain standard, no machining, adding or removing of material is permitted. Exhaust must comply with the CAMS PRC regulations. Catalytic converters and O2 sensor must remain in place.
e. The original fuel pump may be replaced with an external electric type. The fuel lines, fuel pump wiring and relay system may also be replaced or relocated. An additional fuel pump and/or surge tank may be added. <-- Walbro 255 or Bosch040 or whatever?
f. The only modification of the standard cam shaft(s) is to permit the installation of offset bushes to the camshaft pulley to allow adjustment of cam shaft timing, or the fitment of “vernier camshaft pulley”. The timing of camshafts relative to each other and the camshaft profile (lobes and their position) must remain Standard. <-- XR6 cam with vernier gear?
g. Engine and/or Gearbox oil coolers may be installed.
h. Cylinders may be bored to a maximum +0.60mm oversize, and any replacement pistons must be standard configuration (ie: compression height, crown design, etc) no machining of the pistons is permitted (ie: valve relief).
i. No freedoms are granted to the 3.9L CFI Engines. No “performance parity” changes are allowed for in the regulations.
j. Undersized crankshaft bearings may be used. Crankshaft stroke must remain standard.
k. The radiator and its method of fixing are free provided that the original radiator fittings on the car are utilized. (per PRC regulations) . Radiator hoses are free. A radiator screen may be fitted. <-- tek-screws?

l. The fitment of an additional thermostatic fan is permitted. The operation of the fan can be by manual switch or automatic control. <-- thermofans to replace clutchfan?
m. The cylinder head mounting face may be machined. No MODIFICATIONS, MACHINING, ADDING OR REMOVING of material from the cylinder head combustion chamber, inlet ports, exhaust ports or any other parts (except for the cylinder head face and valve seats) of the cylinder head is permitted. <-- shaved head???
n. The air filter and induction system BEFORE the throttle body is free and may be removed and replaced by any suitable aftermarket system. E.g. “POD” styles as per CAMS regulations. No modifications are permitted to the throttle body or inlet manifold. Any Type of forced induction is strictly forbidden.
o. Fuel must be Commercial “Pump” fuel as specified in Schedule G of the 2007 CAMS Manual of Motor Sport. eg.; UNLEADED or PREMIUM UNLEADED. No leaded fuels, avgas or racing fuels.
p. Fuel injectors, ignition computers and electronics must be original Ford Falcon (EA-EL) parts for the models listed and as sold in Australia. No Piggyback ECUs or modifications to ECU wiring harnesses or sensors are permitted.It may be a requirement that competitors take part in a ballot for ECU’s prior to each round of the series. Any competitor may request a Ballot, which will take place after the completion of scrutineering and prior to the Drivers Briefing. <-- XR ECU?
q. All competitors within the Victorian EA-EL VN-VS Rally Series must present their vehicles for scrutineering with the engine "sealed" and Vehicle Log Book endorsed "Engine Sealed" to be eligible to score points in the Victorian EA-EL VN-VS Rally Series.
r. Procedure for engine sealing; The vehicle and or engine is to be presented at a nominated examiner in a condition that will allow the bore and stroke of the engine to be measured. The cylinder head must be present to allow inspection of the combustion chamber, including valve size, inlet port and exhaust port size. The competitor must also be prepared to install the cylinder head and sump at this time so the engine seal can be installed.

The competitor will need to have provided a hole of 3/16" diameter between the flange of the cylinder block and the engine sump, located on the exhaust side of the engine between the oil filter and dipstick tube, on the front of the cylinder head and casting of the cylinder block adjacent to the first inlet port. Once the engine has been found to comply with the Victorian EA-EL VN-VS Rally Series Vehicle Eligibility requirements a CAMS approved seal will be attached to the engine via the hole provided. A completed engine sealing form must be returned to the Series Organising committee.
(List of nominated examiners on last page)
s. Failure to have the "seal" attached will result in a competitor failing to score any points for that round or in the Series.
t. Only normal engine reconditioning procedures are permitted within the mechanical specifications and compliance of the workshop manual and the F.I.A. Recognition Document No 5589 CAMS H2-5 (e). These specifications shall be deemed to include factory approved and recommended methods of assembly as well as specific component measurements and finish standard.
u. Power steering or air conditioning equipment may be added or removed
v. .Engine mounting bushes are free, however the location and number of engine mounts is not.
w. The lowest final drive ratio used is 3.45, which is standard in the XR & latter Ghia series. Limited slip and locked differentials are not permitted. Gearbox ratios are to remain standard. no LSD? NOOOOO!
x. The clutch assembly may be replaced with a ‘heavy duty’ alternative of the standard design. The clutch & pressure plate assembly should weigh not less than 85% of the original Ford component. The Flywheel weight must be standard.

SPECIAL NOTE.
Any item not listed or mentioned above must comply with the CAMS Group N regulations and if not mentioned or listed in the CAMS Group N regulations the item or items must remain unaltered from standard. It is the intention of the rules that the engine be in STANDARD CONDITION in order to contain cost. Latitude in regards to machining dimensions must not be interpreted as a means of enhancing engine performance. Where a dimension
is shown that dimension MUST be observed eg; cylinder bore.

2. BRAKES
a. Brake friction material and the flexible brake lines are free.
b. A hydraulic hand brake may be fitted in addition, not in place of the vehicles normal hand brake. <-- EA s-pack with hydraulic handbrake FTMFW
c. An adjustable brake-proportioning valve may be used in the rear brake circuit to allow adjustment of rear wheel braking bias.
d. Disc brake backing plate may be removed.
e. Cross-drilled or slotted disc rotors are not permitted. The disc rotor specifications must be as per the workshop manual.
f. The installation of brake pad knock off springs and/or metering valves is allowed.

3. SUSPENSION
a. Springs are free provided their type and location are unchanged. (by type is meant coil). ”Coil-over” design permitting the adjustment of ride height are permitted.
b. Shock absorbers must not be of the external reservoir design, and shall not be externally adjusted for bump or rebound. This is to contain costs. Their number and location must remain standard.
c. Bumpstops are free.
d. Bushes used at suspension pivot points may be replaced. The use of urethane is permitted. Spherical joints are not permitted, except in the top strut mount.
e. Suspensions may be modified so that Camber and Caster may be adjusted through the use of eccentric camber pins or washers and caster bush kits.
f. The use of replacement adjustable strut tops is permitted, providing that they utilise the standard body shell mounting facilities. The removal of metal from the suspension tower is forbidden. Except that the hole in rear strut towers may be enlarged to a maximum of 60mm diameter and must remain circular.
g. Anti -roll bars may be upgraded or swapped for aftermarket items provided original sway bar mountings to the chassis are used. Sway bar links are free.
h. A strut brace may be fitted between the front suspension towers provided it only links the towers. The rear suspension towers may be braced by either the roll cage or a strut brace.
i. Suspension components may be strengthened in accordance with CAMS PRC regulations; some modifications are allowable to suspension components. Refer to CAMS manual for full details. The origin of all standard parts must remain clear.

4 BODY & COACHWORK
a. Tyres are free, subject to b. and c
b. Wheels are free, provided that they can be housed within the original bodywork.
c. Wheel diameter must be ??".
d. Coachwork must be as per the workshop manual specifications except that carpet, underfelt, hood lining, rear seat, radio, console and rear parcel shelf may be removed.
e. Supplementary gauges may be fitted within the cabin.
f. Pedal settings may be modified for position but the original mounting fixture must not be changed.
g. CAMS mandatory safety equipment must be fitted as per the NCR's and includes Roll Cage, complying with Schedule J of the CAMS Manual of Motor Sport, Fire Extinguisher, Bonnet Pins, Towing Hooks, First Aid Kit,
Triangles and Mudflaps.
h. An air vent/scoop may be fitted in the roof of the vehicle.
i. Seam welding is permitted. Strengthening/plating of the shell can only be carried out as per PRC regulations or build manual.
j. Any rubber bush may be changed for a bush made of another material as long as the new bush has dimensions the same as the original.
k. The use of Chrome Molly 4130 for the construction of the roll over protection is not permitted
l. Vehicle weight for the Victorian Excel Rally Series must be a minimum of 960 kg <-- ??? what would Falcon be? 1350kg?
m. Fuel tank must be maintained in standard location, suitable damage protection may be installed.

SPECIAL NOTE
Any item not specifically listed or mentioned above must comply with the CAMS
PRC regulations and if not mentioned or listed in the CAMS regulations the item or
items must remain unaltered from standard.
NOMINATED EXAMINERS
Gerald Mammi
Mammi Motors
10 Industrial Dr
Somerville Vic 3912
Ph (03) 5977 7973
VICTORIAN EXCEL RALLY SERIES COMMITTEE
Col Hardinge
1/6 Melton Ave
Carnegie Vic 3163
Ph 0419 104 955
(03) 9578 1185 (h)
chardinge@ozemail.com.au
John Carney
Ph 0412 133 122
gunnawyn@yahoo.com

Any thoughts? Input? Anyone familiar with CAMS rules & regs (roll cages, etc?)

by **Rollin** » July 9th, 2008, 6:54 pm

Shotgun being the steerer....

Oh, wait, I'm in QLD.

This idea sucks big time.

by **Commando** » July 9th, 2008, 6:55 pm

John, I'll throw in up to $500 to see this go ahead

EDIT - or if the diff rule can be changed (LSDs are cheap... so are LOKKAs

) I'll throw my Lokka in

by **TURBO_GHIA** » July 9th, 2008, 7:06 pm

i reckon they should change the brakes regulation .slotted rotors arent much these days gives it that little better brakes witho ut going over the top to 330mm setup or similar .

by **oneredED** » July 9th, 2008, 7:15 pm

Damn this is AWESOME!!! Given the finances I'd be all over this like a fat kid on cake!

by **Commando** » July 9th, 2008, 7:17 pm

If $8k is needed to have a functioning rally team in a low-end e-series (ie stock-ish EA, and assuming minimal *costly* stacks, nothing more than panel or tyre damage), I'm sure we could realistically get 50-150 people on here to raise that kind of money over a few months to be "in".

by **Steady** » July 9th, 2008, 7:22 pm

TURBO_GHIA wrote:i reckon they should change the brakes regulation .slotted rotors arent much these days gives it that little better brakes witho ut going over the top to 330mm setup or similar .

They are excel rules, EA-EL/VN-VS may be coooompletely different.
I'd guess it would still be based on having a cheap "starter" series to get into it, so alot of it will be restricted to keep costs down.

Theres more then jsut the car re: costs involved.
Storage, trailer hire/buy, tow car, fuel, ongoing costs (damage, consumables), safety gear.
Storage is hard one, for me anyway, as is towcar.
You'd have to join a CAMS affiliated club to get a license.

Let me put it this way.
If someone fields a car, 90% of the cost is gonna be worn by them, most E-Series owners are notoriously non-existent when it comes time to put their hand into their pockets

by **Commando** » July 9th, 2008, 7:25 pm

I was just going off that $8k ballpark figure, but you're right Jared, it's more than just the initial capital, and more than just finances involved.

Sponsorship of a team or teams would still be doable!

by **AaronEF8** » July 9th, 2008, 7:37 pm

m. The cylinder head mounting face may be machined. No MODIFICATIONS, MACHINING, ADDING OR REMOVING of material from the cylinder head combustion chamber, inlet ports, exhaust ports or any other parts (except for the cylinder head face and valve seats) of the cylinder head is permitted. <-- shaved head???

I read that as Saloon Car head, with those massively butchered "valve seats".

p. Fuel injectors, ignition computers and electronics must be original Ford Falcon (EA-EL) parts for the models listed and as sold in Australia. No Piggyback ECUs or modifications to ECU wiring harnesses or sensors are permitted.It may be a requirement that competitors take part in a ballot for ECU’s prior to each round of the series. Any competitor may request a Ballot, which will take place after the completion of scrutineering and prior to the Drivers Briefing. <-- XR ECU?

I read that as J3 chip is ok, I doubt that would be the case though. A 'ballot' means someone can shotgun your ECU, and you can shotgun someone elses, because in theory they are all the same.

w. The lowest final drive ratio used is 3.45, which is standard in the XR & latter Ghia series. Limited slip and locked differentials are not permitted. Gearbox ratios are to remain standard. no LSD? NOOOOO!

Interesting one. I'm guessing this was re-written from the Excel rules? Maybe it's written like that because no Excels have LSD from the factory? A RWD car with no LSD makes for a shit rally car.

i. Suspension components may be strengthened in accordance with CAMS PRC regulations; some modifications are allowable to suspension components. Refer to CAMS manual for full details. The origin of all standard parts must remain clear.

If it isn't specifically outlined, this could read as an XE Group-C style hobo ladder bar rear end to fix the rear steer.

i reckon they should change the brakes regulation .slotted rotors arent much these days gives it that little better brakes witho ut going over the top to 330mm setup or similar .

You don't really need big brakes on a rally car, the stockers lock up on dirt no worries.

If someone fields a car, 90% of the cost is gonna be worn by them, most E-Series owners are notoriously non-existent when it comes time to put their hand into their pockets

Bingo!

I'm still in a CAMS affiliated club. Rally licence costs about a grand. The 700+ km distance is a hurdle too..

by **pHaT`eL** » July 9th, 2008, 7:41 pm

If someone has a CHEAP car already that may not be 100% RW that could be stripped down to race it would be alot easier. As I said earlier, im spewing my EA isnt around anymore.

by **Malakai** » July 9th, 2008, 8:04 pm

NO LSD or LOKKA = shithouse... are they for serious? LSD is per workshop specification on certain models! Plus extractors would be good too.

I have an idea for finding a car, after one gets wrecked we will just draw straws to see who's car gets used next, swap the parts over and go for it.

In all seriousness it would still be mad fun and cheap, even with and mainly because of the restrictions.

by **krisisdog** » July 9th, 2008, 8:16 pm

Xpfalcon170 wrote:damn! why can't this be in nsw aswell. thats it, moving to melbourne

Fuk'in hell. I have access to multiple EA-ELs, complete, that I could get for free PLUS a sponsorship.... Gawd damnit... do this in NSW!!!!!!!!!!!

by **[Sterling]** » July 9th, 2008, 8:20 pm

krisisdog wrote:
Xpfalcon170 wrote:damn! why can't this be in nsw aswell. thats it, moving to melbourne

Fuk'in hell. I have access to multiple EA-ELs, complete, that I could get for free PLUS a sponsorship.... Gawd damnit... do this in NSW!!!!!!!!!!!

move to VIC bring a few of those with you:D

by **Steady** » July 9th, 2008, 8:21 pm

Dave, maybe put in giant letters, bold, in your post that you have just reworded the excel rules, and that they aren't actually the rules for this EA-EL/VN-VS series because thats what the thread is about, a meeting to discuss the rules...

by **Commando** » July 9th, 2008, 8:33 pm

OK I'm on it

EDIT - done!

by **ernysp76** » July 10th, 2008, 12:33 pm

Glad to have got such a great response so far OK this is the plan:

1) I will be sitting down with two rally guns and a major cage maker to look at the rules with the suggestions so far.
2) This will be posted when done here and on the Holden Sporting Car Club site and brought to the meeting on the 26th July.

3) If needed the rules will be modified on the night or if people prefer to take them away and have a period of time (determine by the meeting).

4) The series regulations and build rules will be taken to Victorian Rally Advisory Panel for ratification for intial approval pending testing.

5) Two cars will be tested back to back at Mafeking Park near Yea, based on the testing parity issues will need to be addressed at this stage we are looking at time differnentuals (ie. for km of competitive rallying X car would be given 1 or 2 seconds advantage over Y car.

6) Series regulations are given final approval for inclussion in the 2009 Victorian Rally Championship.

Now COSTS....

The CAMS website has all the details on licences, for State Events you do not need a higher licence than a Clubman Rally Licence $135, your navigator can also opt for this licence or get the Clubman Navigator Licence $135.

You will need to be a member of a CAMS affiliated club go for a club that does rallying already they will help you with the car preparation, CCRMIT, PAC, MUCC are all well know for rallying and these are listed on the CAMS website as well.

Each event is published on the Vicrally website, it is important that you realise that VRC and VCRS are not the same, VRC is the premium event in rallying it has additional safety is sometimes pacenoted and always has a roadbook with what are know as tulips to describe the roads. VCRS is a club series and is also fun but is well supported generally by people who like maps and navigation stuff (boring). Cost of a VRC event is $500 - $550, this covers all permits and everything associated with closing off public roads. There are usually between 6 and 8 rounds of the VRC per year however I would reccommend as a series we DON'T do the rally of Melbourne as this take 4 days and can cost nearly $2,000 for the one event!

Any other cost... not really only usual wear and tear on the cars. We may be able to get a group buy on tyres, this may bring there cost down significantly, Auzsport make a re-cap rally tyre that works well on the bigger cars without problems the other is Dunlop, tyres range from $125 to over $250, you will burn up 2 tyres per rally (no guesses as to which ones), though these can usually be rotated to the front in which case you'll get 2 rallys out of two tyres.

Gear:

Racesuit, again the Specs are in the CAMS manual but generally a single layer FIA approved is all that is needed, this is a one-off purchase and can cost from $200 to $2,000.

Helmet, Helmets that has Australian Standards Approval is OK, however it must have no scratchs or cracks (they check them at scrutiny every event). It's up to you what price you put on your head?

Boots, reccommended FIA 2000 approved, however there is a grace period at the moment where leather topped shoes are OK.

Gloves, only the drivers need gloves these need to be FIA 2000 approved.

Under garmets need to be wool or cotton including socks.

Belaclarva, FIA 2000 approved

Please remember that all the gear is a one-off and if you look after it won't need to cost you anymore.

I know this is information overload and I'm sure some of you are already swatting up. I hope we can answer all your questions as we go. Having built a couple of car now I can tell you it is both fun and frustrating, but it is worth it when you get out there and legally go sideways on public roads!!!

by **EFFalcon** » July 10th, 2008, 12:38 pm

Can we attend the testing at Yea?

would be good to watch

by **Alesia** » July 10th, 2008, 12:52 pm

Well i can have a full tilt trailer whenever it is needed no renting cost ( dad has his own)

If people were serious about this looking at getting sponsors is the only real way to do it , This is the first of its kind for this area so you could hit up the more specialist groups for sponsorship like a sponsor tyre/wheel based , maybe a wreckers ?(obvious just falcons would work) if you can cover the constant costs involved with it then thats half the work done!

by **Commando** » July 10th, 2008, 2:00 pm

EFFalcon wrote:Can we attend the testing at Yea?
would be good to watch

HELL YEAH! Road trip to Yea!

You will need to be a member of a CAMS affiliated club go for a club that does rallying already they will help you with the car preparation, CCRMIT, PAC, MUCC are all well know for rallying and these are listed on the CAMS website as well.

Apart from Aaron who is SA based, are there any Vic-based CAMS members on here?

CCRMIT = Car Club Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology http://ccrmit.members.dcsi.net.au/ccrmit_welcome.html
PAC = Pakenham Auto Club http://www.pakenhamautoclub.org.au
MUCC = Melbourne University Car Club http://www.mucc.net.au

by **pHaT`eL** » July 10th, 2008, 3:05 pm

Pakenham Auto Club is the one my mates in.

Testing could be amusing

Wonder if Dandy wants to have a go?

by **speed.freak** » July 10th, 2008, 3:48 pm

http://www.cams.com.au/downloads/paperf ... cation.pdf

^^^link for rally liscence forms, for anyone thats in a CAM's registered club and thinking about going ahead with this.

would be a fun thing to get involved in, be good to see this go ahead.

by **AaronEF8** » July 10th, 2008, 3:50 pm

Thanks for the extra information John, very handy. The prices for licencing/fees are a lot cheaper than I thought too, always a plus

Is anyone here planning on attending the night?

Wonder if Dandy wants to have a go?

lol.

http://www.vicrally.com.au/ if anyone wants to have a look. It has the rounds for the season.

The parity thing will be interesting, Commdores being down on power (Esp. non Ecotec's), but being narrower and lighter.

EF-EL's have much bigger bushes in the front end mainly on the LCA's, the K-frames look stronger, and they bolt into EA-ED's.

by **Steady** » July 10th, 2008, 6:56 pm

I'm gonna try and make it to the meeting depending on location.
Having a meeting with my business partner ( :lol:

) tomorrow night just to see what the dealio is.
Financials are there, I think the car could be built fairly cheaply, cheaper then Saloon or an IPR car for shizzle, it's mostly transport and storage that are the main hurdles.
I'd probably like to sit back and see how it pans out before building a car, seeing as I have < 0 experience :lol:

As in go to a few rallys as a spectator and speak to the guys that are competing already, get a feel for it before jumping in.

by **Commando** » July 10th, 2008, 7:01 pm

If Alesia's old man can "lend" the trailer mentioned for a season, that would solve the transport side

F6 would make a mad towcar

Jared I'll be at the Rawson stage next weekend!

by **Steady** » July 10th, 2008, 7:28 pm

F6 only has a 750kg towbar on it, cause the 1800 needed the rear bar cut!
Next weekend's no good for me, snowboarding trip.

by **Alesia** » July 10th, 2008, 8:16 pm

Trailer and Tow car ED Fairmont 5.0L wagon

by **Commando** » July 10th, 2008, 8:20 pm

Worth a try

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