Big Brake kits etc. It's getting boring I know...

[donno]

I know plenty of Mech Engs, and herein lies the problem. You seriously do not want to know how much its going to cost you.

My company charges out my services for $115 an hour - I'm a second year grad. Getting someone who can actually sign off on something - you're looking at upwards of $150 an hour. If you can find a contractor who has their own indemnity insurance you may get away with $100 an hour.

Assuming they're happy to sign off on the basis that the original control arm is sufficiently rated for the required duty and that the replacement will exceed it based upon the specs of the steel used and its construction - you'll be looking at least 5hrs min labor .

[LUXO_8]

well, i for one (and im sure others as well) dont mind pitching in to help cover the certification costs.

[BLC]

I really wanted bigger brakes but I'd like to keep the E-series offset, and it's quite expensive too.

I was thinking of getting braided brake lines + rebuilt calipers/booster to go with my slotted rotors all round. Using Bendix Ultimate pads - surely that would provide fairly good braking? Presumably not as good as some of these bigger kits, but a lot of it comes down to the tyre too - no point having massive brakes if the tyres aren't up to the task.

Thoughts? Am I wasting my time with the braided lines and rebuild kit?

[Rollin]

Donno - I'd been told by the guy that I was going to get to build the arms that it would cost 1500 to 2k for the testing and certification. I'm not fussed paying that if the certification covers any arms built exactly the same as the ones that were tested, but if every single arm has to be tested then they can shove that idea out the window.

Do you know what the go is there? I want to get a lot of sets made, and preferably spread out the cost of the certification over 10 or 15 sets.


Ef_frmnt - I've got an engineer that will mod plate anything But That isn't what I want - I want to get it done legit so I can get these arms made for other people without lying in bed at night wondering if/when someone was going to die

[donno]

I'm speaking from the perspective of a sparky here (although I'd imagine mechanical folk would have a similar system), but we have what we call a type tested design. Basically you test a few units of a certain design to the relevant Australian Standard, and you get a little certificate for that design. Make anything identical to it and the design for that unit is deemed safe. However there may be routine tests that are required on a single component in each batch (depends on simplicity of design) to ensure that their manufacture also meets Australian Standards.

So if you were to do 15 sets, only 1 set would probably have to be type tested (2g), but for each batch of say 10 sets that are made at a time, you may have to for instance test 1 arm for tensile strength and ultrasonically checked (i think that's the method used...) for microscopic cracks etc.

[Rollin]

Yeah that sounds logical.

I've just emailed two engineer type people up here listed on some RTA list of approved signatories, so I'm waiting to hear back from them now.

I shouldn't have bought that 3.5" zorst...that was money I had stashed for the LCAs!

[Steady]

I really wanted bigger brakes but I'd like to keep the E-series offset, and it's quite expensive too.

I was thinking of getting braided brake lines + rebuilt calipers/booster to go with my slotted rotors all round. Using Bendix Ultimate pads - surely that would provide fairly good braking? Presumably not as good as some of these bigger kits, but a lot of it comes down to the tyre too - no point having massive brakes if the tyres aren't up to the task.

Thoughts? Am I wasting my time with the braided lines and rebuild kit?

Do you ever do multiple hard stops from full acceleration in a short space of time?
Do you ever try and do a hard stop from any speed over 120km/h?
If the answer to both of those questions is 'no', then what you are proposing will be the best for you.

Any brake upgrade, realistically, probably isn't going to reduce braking distances for a single 'legal speed' stop versus the stock brakes.

[donno]

Had a chat to one of my mech eng mates at work and he didn't know off the top of his head what's required (we don't have anything to do with vehicles), but he's an offroad 4wd nut and reckons ask some of the aftermarket companies what they do as many of their kits require modification of control arms for raised suspensions.

I also had a look through our online Aus Std. library but couldn't find anything on suspension (but our software license probably doesn't cover it).

[LUXO_8]

was having a look under an au today.... i hadnt ever had a chance to check out the au LCA's..
would it at all be possible to add the front pivot mount for the au LCA to an eseries k frame? would that even work to then allow an au LCA to be bolted in? i didnt have an eseries LCA handy to compare, and had nothing to measure anything with, but its just a thought

would definantly save all the hassles of having an LCA made and engineered.. you'd only have to prove your (or whoever does the job) bracket and welding was up to standard

[Malakai]

This thread needs more pics.

[LUXO_8]

yeh sorry ey... was at a mates workshop and didnt have a camera..
went in to pick his brains on the idea and he's like...there's an au on the hoist if ya wanna look...lol

[BI6TIM]

would it at all be possible to add the front pivot mount for the au LCA to an eseries k frame?

I had already thought about that. I'm of the opinion that it would be rather difficult to mount that whole front cross member from the AU to the front of an E-Series. I had then thought about making a new 'pod' for the front lower control arm bush but then that would be in the same league as making a new lower control arm.

At the end of the day if you want to weld on or make new suspension arms it requires what rollin is going through now. I'd be of the opinion that it would be harder to get a new 'pod' cleared than it would a new LCA.

[LUXO_8]

yeah, i was only thinking of adding the "pods" as you put it to pick up the front of the AU LCA.... i was thinking it'd be less hassle than designing and making LCA's from scratch, being that you'd have to work out all the geometry for them as opposed to bolting in the stock AU LCA's

thats fair enough.....was just a thought i had when i was looking under the car that might have been easier....

[Rollin]

Yeah I did briefly consider modding the K frame to try and fit entire AU arms, but ditched it because it seemed like a major pain in the ass, also, as Tim has said, it would require the same amount of engineering bullshit as the arms would, but a k-frame would be much less 'portable' - ie: able to be shipped around the country.

I need to get some AU upper and lower arms, I might put a little more thought into the k-frame idea once I have them to do some measuring with, but at the moment new lower arms seem to be the way to go.

I'm also not sure what the ackerman angles will be with the AU uprights, and a million other potential problems are there to be considered. Just waiting on a reply from the engineer dudes at the moment :/

[RMCprime]

Today i was looking at a completely unrealated thread and saw some one had made their own tubular control arms. I then googled "Tubular suspension parts" and came accross this crew in sydney http://www.tubularsuspensionsystems.com/hq_wb.htm. If you read the details in the "about us" link it says that all tube a-arms come with an engineers cert. You could possibly contact them and or get some similar company to make tubular lower control arms.

[Rollin]

I don't know if a tubular style will actually work on an eseries, due to the shape of the arm and the different loads it is required to take, and the angles those loads come from - if they were a proper A arm setup It would be easy, but unfortunately they aren't and are a much more complex shape...

[Ef_frmnt]

i bought a set of upc brakes. im thinking that considering they have put new mounting points on there.. that maybe.. just maybe.. AU brake upgrades might even fit on the modified spindles/uprights. ill bring em over when they arrive dan

[Rollin]

Sounds like a plan - will give me a chance to see if drifteks bolt on

[Malakai]

UPC kit uses a VE caliper, I bet they are way different to an AU caliper and the upgrades available.

[Rollin]

You could probably get a machine shop to make up a bracket to suit a different caliper (and bigger rotor), you'd need to make sure they use the right materials though, or you may die.

Probably actually a good way to go really, less hassle than this LCA shit - Sucks that you can't buy just the upright and hub assy without the disc+caliper though, waste of money!

[EFFalcon]

LCA doesn't suit me anyway!

I need to keep my Upper Control arm for the airbags

custom spindles FTW!

[Malakai]

17" x 9.5" drift-teks (+18 offset) fit perfectly with the UPC kit, except for the guard rolling/lipping required. They will also need a small hub locator which is no big deal and the main thing is NO SPACERS REQUIRED. There is 8mm clearance to the upright and a good 1 to 2 inches clearance at full lock both ways. I can't believe it! Tim always said they would fit but I still can't believe they fit so well, and boy do they look awesome.

Pics coming soon...

[Steady]

You could probably get a machine shop to make up a bracket to suit a different caliper (and bigger rotor), you'd need to make sure they use the right materials though, or you may die.

Probably actually a good way to go really, less hassle than this LCA shit - Sucks that you can't buy just the upright and hub assy without the disc+caliper though, waste of money!

Just get the uprights machined...
Lose the pad ears, mill a flat surface so the caliper bracket sits flat.
Tada, one modified upright.
As for hub, more work, but take one E-Series disc, part down everything that makes it a disc... tada, one hub.

Alternatively, if you just want to buy the shit, and UPC is unhappy to sell individual parts, try ringing Racebrakes.
You might have more luck with them...

[nothin suss]

Just get the uprights machined...
Lose the pad ears, mill a flat surface so the caliper bracket sits flat.
Tada, one modified upright.
As for hub, more work, but take one E-Series disc, part down everything that makes it a disc... tada, one hub.
Alternatively, if you just want to buy the shit, and UPC is unhappy to sell individual parts, try ringing Racebrakes.
You might have more luck with them...

That is 100% the cheapest way for sure.. Pushes e-series offset out by whatever thickness the new disk is, about 10mm.
A territory vented 330mm will slide over an e-series hub/disk with the bracking surface parted off. Perhaps EL studs need to be installed to the e-series hub first.
Just freaks me out taking material out of an upright. A mill to get shit perpendicular would be A+ ideal. But brake pad will allow for fine tolerance faults once bedded in.

[Steady]

the territory you gotta drill a new hole or something and flatten a fair amount, then they bolt on with original caliper brackets is that about right Danny?
Someone went over it with me, I can't fukken remember, I was more interested in the C4 calipers cause they fit under sprint rims hahaha

[nothin suss]

the territory you gotta drill a new hole or something and flatten a fair amount, then they bolt on with original caliper brackets is that about right Danny?
Someone went over it with me, I can't fukken remember, I was more interested in the C4 calipers cause they fit under sprint rims hahaha

The Territory rotor/calpier combination will require the existing brake slider tabs to be hacked off, some material flattened on the upright, a new hole drilled/tapped in the upright as well as minimal mods to the new caliper bracket. Anyone with a grinder and a file can do it. Would be a prick to set up in a mill but that would be ideal. Its just whether you feel comfortable taking material out and modifying an upright. I know of a few done but not on road cars, work 100%. No faults yet. And sorry no pics....

[private9]

the territory you gotta drill a new hole or something and flatten a fair amount, then they bolt on with original caliper brackets is that about right Danny?
Someone went over it with me, I can't fukken remember, I was more interested in the C4 calipers cause they fit under sprint rims hahaha

The Territory rotor/calpier combination will require the existing brake slider tabs to be hacked off, some material flattened on the upright, a new hole drilled/tapped in the upright as well as minimal mods to the new caliper bracket. Anyone with a grinder and a file can do it. Would be a prick to set up in a mill but that would be ideal. Its just whether you feel comfortable taking material out and modifying an upright. I know of a few done but not on road cars, work 100%. No faults yet. And sorry no pics....

Hey Danny, you wouldn't have a contact for who did that work would ya? I've got Territory discs and calipers doing nothing, and I'd love to do this if it's as easy as it sounds.

[BI6TIM]

Here you go Dan. So everyone knows, this is one of my 17x9.5 +18 Driftek's on the front of Malakai's EA with the UPC kit.









As Brett has said, it's fits so good. I'm not sure what happened when you did a dummy fit Dan but by these photo's you can see the guard only needs to be flared out about 15-20mm.
This is definitely the cheapest and easiest way to get big brakes and sick wheel fittment on an E-Series!

[BBQBurner]

it's costing me $1000 bucks (engineers bill) to fit the complete AU front suspention and rear AU IRS

i bought the BA xr8 brake upgrade, 320mm rotor and twin piston 50mm calpier

i'll be doing it myself so i'll be doing a build thread in about 2 months time.

[BI6TIM]

it's costing me $1000 bucks (engineers bill) to fit the complete AU front suspention and rear AU IRS

Well do yourself a favour and change the front lower control arm bush to a SuperPro item before you put it all together. You'd thank me for that bit of advise if you knew how much difference it makes.

[nothin suss]

Hey Danny, you wouldn't have a contact for who did that work would ya? I've got Territory discs and calipers doing nothing, and I'd love to do this if it's as easy as it sounds.

I saw a guy at a club sprint once... Gave me a run-down. I could draw it perhaps

[Malakai]

From the pics it looks like I might just get away with rolling the guards but in the flesh it's apparent it will need more than that. Also we just put the car down after changing the wheel, it sits a lot lower normally. Didn't think of that last night.

Oh well the things that would be hard to change are not a problem at all they are the clearance at left and right full lock and the clearance to the upright. Guards can be easily modified. Sickness!

[Rollin]

Pics of the car on the ground required to gauge fullysickness!

I didn't really do a 'trial fit' as such, just tried to stick the drifteks on the front of my stock uprights to see what/how bad everything would hit - the rim hit the upright when there was still about 20mm to go before it mated to the hub. Did look kinda similar to what the pics show above, but IIRC there was more tyre poking out.

If you roll the absolute crap out of the guards you might be able to fit the little sprint/GT nubbin thingos that ford did to make the rims on those cars legal. Might look a little funny but nobody will notice once the drifteks are poking out of there.

UPC kit looks like good value hey...definitely an option.

[67rce]

Dan,

Bolt your spare Driftek's to the front of mine, see how AU's take 9.5's and clearance on the guards, BTW, I can source 9.5's for $300 each

[Ef_frmnt]

i cant wait to get my brakes... anyone know if the pads are any good in the upc kits im probly gonna throw them away and get QFM ones straight up

[Malakai]

Not sure how the pads go during a real hard workout but I will find out when I hit the track next on the 20th of June. So far they show promising signs though. Keep in mind any pads available for VE commodores will go straight on the UPC kit from what I can tell.

[OED666]

Malakai, how do you like the UPC kit? notice much improvement? Just deciding if I should swap for my EL GT kit. Considering its the same diameter rotor, and twin piston, I would expect it to be similar performance.

[Malakai]

Yep probably similar performance to the RBS kit. I can only compare it to my old brakes which were slotted RDA rotors and unknown pads, they worked really well actually. With the UPC kit so far I notice that the initial bite is much better and they can wash speed off quicker. Repeated high speed braking is yet to be tested.

I mainly bought the kit for the change in offset though so 90% of the reason for getting the kit is fulfilled by that feature alone, better braking performance is an added bonus.

Wheel availability for pre-AU Fords is sh|thouse as you know.

[BLC]

Yep probably similar performance to the RBS kit. I can only compare it to my old brakes which were slotted RDA rotors and unknown pads, they worked really well actually. With the UPC kit so far I notice that the initial bite is much better and they can wash speed off quicker. Repeated high speed braking is yet to be tested.
.

I'm interested to hear how much of a difference the UPC/RBS kit makes, over standard sized rotors. I imagine repeated stops would show up the differences...

[Rollin]

If they don't fade after more than 1 braking effort from 150 down to 60, they're worth it lol.....