Boosted Falcon

I realise this is probably the wrong place for this, but I needed lots of views fairly quickly, for ideas and responses and stuff.

Ok, so I want to get a set of brakes for the front of my car, 50% because I need to stop, and 50% because I want to fit drifteks to the front also.

Now, I've been emailing this guy from ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FALCON-EA-EB-ED- ... ccessories

To clarify some stuff before I hand over cash, gotta say, I'm not that impressed :/

I sent:

Rollin wrote:Hi, I'm interested in the +28mm offset big brake kit for E-series falcons, just have a few questions.

1: Can you ensure that I will get a set of ED uprights with this kit?

2: How much is postage to Brisbane (4030)?

3: Approximately how long does it generally take between receiving full payment and posting the kit?

Thank you for your help,

Daniel

He replied:

Mr Spares wrote:We can only use the late model upright with the ABS sensor in it. The are exactly the same as ED but could be EL or EF.

Delivery via Toll-Ipec door to door service will be $73. Takes a week to get to you via road with Toll-Ipec. We send within 2 days if it is an off the shelf kit. If it has custom parts it is a day or 2 longer.

Call me on 03 9762 1500 to arrange, we can take credit card over the phone or send details for direct deposit.

Cheers

Tony

I sent:

Rollin wrote:If I send my ED uprights down to you to be modified, how long do you think it would take to machine them and send them back up?

One of my friends got a kit (not sure if it was from you or someone else) but got later e-series uprights with the kit (his car is an ED also) and the tone wheels are wrong (we nearly had an accident because the abs kicked in when slowing down gently at a T intersection, we nearly rolled through it!!!) the sensors didn't fit without spacers and the wheel alignment was massively out (20mm toe-in per side or thereabouts) because the uprights are different between EA/ED and EF/EL....

I apologise if I sound like a pain in the ass, I just want to make sure that I'm paying almost $2k for a kit that will match my car and my wheels and not give me the grief that others have reported and experienced

Which is where I'm at now.

WTF does he mean "We can only use the late model upright with the ABS sensor in it. The are exactly the same as ED but could be EL or EF." Same as ED but could be EF or EL, which are not the same as ED???? By the time postage and crap is organised that kit will cost almost $2k, and if I don't send my uprights down I'll probably get the bubblecar ones back, which will f*ck up all the Ackerman angles during turns and generally make the wheel alignment crap.

So, I was looking through ebay and came across these puppies:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/D2-8-Piston-Brak ... 240%3A1318

Which I'm sure you will agree look much more fully sick. Obviously, they aren't a bolt on proposition, which is where I need some help from people with AU knowledge.

AU front hubs - if you knock off the wheel bearing cover can you just remove them like e-series fronts? Is the stub axle a similar shape, can the AU hub be fitted to an E-series upright?

If that is possible and the AU hub changes the offset of the front wheels, then I think it should be ok to just get the upright machined to match the brakes --->



The things on the RHS just in front of the brake pads are brackets that adapt the callipers to supra/skyline fronts, and IMHO could be made to work on an E-series.

Pipe dream? Any ideas?

It will work out more expensive making shit from scratch, but they are 8 piston front brakes............may be worth the hassle...

It's the "made to work on an E-Series" that's the problem with that whole idea of yours.
I say go to the wreckers and grab the cheapest AU hub you can and start checking shit.

The other option would be to change your rack ends an tie rod ends to EF and just get the UPC kit. I'll most likely be able to make the wheel alignment work. On that note I want to get Lanky's car in at work and see what we can do with that.

i'm pretty sure they use the late model EF/EL ABS ones because they use the hole or something to hold it when machining, or something along those lines.

Hey Dan the AU hub/stub axel is different to an E series the Hub is all a semi sealed unit and the casing for the bearings sits on the stubaxel where as the e-series as you know you pack the bearings straight onto the stubaxel. I have sum Hubs and what not for an AU at home but cat get to them atm

I have been looking at the D2 brake kits as an upgrad option for the AU 356mm 8 pot brake sound like they would be sweet on the front of the AU

Off topic but on topic if you know what I mean...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... :IT&ih=017

I reckon your best option to get what you are after is to either a) give Race Brakes in sydney a call, or any one else similar and prepare to pay dollars or b) start batting for the other side so you can get nice and cosy with a homosexual machinist, then get busy with the verniers. For measuring I mean, not using them for other stuff.


Nah but serious, I reckon you're better off picking a rotor (330mm? can still fit 17s if you want?), picking a caliper to suit, then do the hard yards designing a caliper bracket and a hub.
If you do the design work, and they aren't overly complicated, I can't see it costing THAT much to get a one off machined up by a local engineering joint (disclaimer: I actually have no idea how much they would charge).
It'll probably be less of a headfuck then trying to adapt those taiwanese 8 piston things.

Steady, I'm pretty sure that the brakes in your link are owned by a guy that used to be on AFF "347 Stroker". If you recall, he was actually a bit of a stroker. I don't trust him as far as I could throw him.

With regards to finding a rotor, then calliper to match, then designing a bracket and hub, that is kinda what I thought the D2 kit would do - obviously the calliper and disc match, and if an AU hub could be made to fit an E-series stub axle then the rotor would just slip over it AU style (supra/skyline/200sx et al all run with the ford 5x114.3 stud spacing) and the only problem would be mounting the calliper to the upright....

Rollin wrote:Steady, I'm pretty sure that the brakes in your link are owned by a guy that used to be on AFF "347 Stroker". If you recall, he was actually a bit of a stroker. I don't trust him as far as I could throw him.

With regards to finding a rotor, then calliper to match, then designing a bracket and hub, that is kinda what I thought the D2 kit would do - obviously the calliper and disc match, and if an AU hub could be made to fit an E-series stub axle then the rotor would just slip over it AU style (supra/skyline/200sx et al all run with the ford 5x114.3 stud spacing) and the only problem would be mounting the calliper to the upright....

E series stub axels are a fair bit thinner than an AU stub axel and are more tappered at the upright end for the bearings if anything you may get away with an ?EL GT 330mm rotor and try and adapt the D2 calipers to them

This isn't getting boring, it has been an on again off again discussion for a while now. Hopefully we can work something out this time.

As I see it the goals are:
1, Reasonably priced
2, Change the offset (mainly to run GTR Drifteks on the front)
3, Acceptable wheel alignment geometry
4, Acceptable compatibility for early model ABS

I thought Tim was onto something with the idea that you could take an AU upright and lower arm then modify the lower arm (or make a tubular steel one) to fit an e-series. That way you get AU offset on the front and all the AU-BF brake upgrade options. Obviously there is more to it than that but I thought it was worth a mention. Tim can elaborate further I'm sure, it is his idea.

i think you'd have to do alot to get an AU lower control arm (and radius rod) onto an eseries.

I spoke to Tim at length about it a while back, apparently for a complete lower arm to be certified (or whatever it is QLD transport do) there needs to be 11ty tests done on the arm itself, then once it passes those tests it has to be fitted to the car and tested some more, which he estimated would cost approximately the same as 2631 mint condition EA S packs, so massive fail on that idea It was good but.

Bomber - can you get pics of AU stub axles with and without the hub fitted?

Rollin wrote:Steady, I'm pretty sure that the brakes in your link are owned by a guy that used to be on AFF "347 Stroker". If you recall, he was actually a bit of a stroker. I don't trust him as far as I could throw him.

With regards to finding a rotor, then calliper to match, then designing a bracket and hub, that is kinda what I thought the D2 kit would do - obviously the calliper and disc match, and if an AU hub could be made to fit an E-series stub axle then the rotor would just slip over it AU style (supra/skyline/200sx et al all run with the ford 5x114.3 stud spacing) and the only problem would be mounting the calliper to the upright....

Rollin, you are right, that gear is Cockheads and the uprights were everyday Falcons not GT's.

Rollin wrote:
Bomber - can you get pics of AU stub axles with and without the hub fitted?

Ill see what i can do cant get down to the parts atm there back in the shed at my olds place.

adxr8 wrote:

Rollin wrote:Steady, I'm pretty sure that the brakes in your link are owned by a guy that used to be on AFF "347 Stroker". If you recall, he was actually a bit of a stroker. I don't trust him as far as I could throw him.

With regards to finding a rotor, then calliper to match, then designing a bracket and hub, that is kinda what I thought the D2 kit would do - obviously the calliper and disc match, and if an AU hub could be made to fit an E-series stub axle then the rotor would just slip over it AU style (supra/skyline/200sx et al all run with the ford 5x114.3 stud spacing) and the only problem would be mounting the calliper to the upright....

Rollin, you are right, that gear is Cockheads and the uprights were everyday Falcons not GT's.

He's still around? Natural selection must be broken...

Malakai wrote:

adxr8 wrote:

Rollin wrote:Steady, I'm pretty sure that the brakes in your link are owned by a guy that used to be on AFF "347 Stroker". If you recall, he was actually a bit of a stroker. I don't trust him as far as I could throw him.

With regards to finding a rotor, then calliper to match, then designing a bracket and hub, that is kinda what I thought the D2 kit would do - obviously the calliper and disc match, and if an AU hub could be made to fit an E-series stub axle then the rotor would just slip over it AU style (supra/skyline/200sx et al all run with the ford 5x114.3 stud spacing) and the only problem would be mounting the calliper to the upright....

Rollin, you are right, that gear is Cockheads and the uprights were everyday Falcons not GT's.

He's still around? Natural selection must be broken...

He keeps changing his user names everywhere but cant change his colours...........

He's the best argument for abortion i know!

well i have no problems cos i want them for my ef. so ef/l uprights is great for me. i think we should organise a group buy if people are interested in that +28mm offset kit... as i want one as well and i know a few others were interested

Problem is Ef_frmnt, AU offset is +36mm, not 28mm, which is sort of in the middle of nowhere.

haha middle of nowhere is a pretty damn small place... get a ruler and measure 6mm... its verysmall.

unless your running 20s or 245+ tyres on any smaller diameter wheels then that 6mm is not going to be an issue. it may even help with guard fouling issues. and if you really want that 6mm back then cut the outside off a few brake dust shields and wack them on as they will be invisible and the wheel will still seat on the hub and studs properly.

Its still not the correct offset is it tho?
You wont hit the guard if you have the correct offset rims.

when i rang up a upc kit, they said that i couldnt fit my 8" wide rims with my current suspension. sif have 4wd height suspension and big brakes...

So which one did you get? Link motherf*cker!

the one you linked to dan, i emailed that guy and he guranteed that my 20x8.5 wheels would fit. or i would get my money back.

for the 11tyth billion time.. I got a Race Brakes Sydney EL GT kit you derek!

krisisdog wrote:Its still not the correct offset is it tho?
You wont hit the guard if you have the correct offset rims.

what sort of fantasy world are you living in. ask how many people with the correct offset rims have hit the guard on their car because its lowered. if your statement was true everyone would have their rims sitting an inch under the guard

Yeh okay, my 17x8s (AU series offset + spacers) dont hit the front guard, theyve got plenty of clearance, as do my mates 18x8 phoon replicas in pre au offset.

Whats the point of upgrading your brakes when you say you can only run 245s? Heard of mechanical grip....?

krisisdog wrote:Yeh okay, my 17x8s (AU series offset + spacers) dont hit the front guard, theyve got plenty of clearance, as do my mates 18x8 phoon replicas in pre au offset.

Whats the point of upgrading your brakes when you say you can only run 245s? Heard of mechanical grip....?

Ever heard of 300+rwkw and stock E-Series brakes? Try it and see what you think about a brake upgrade then

krisisdog wrote:Whats the point of upgrading your brakes when you say you can only run 245s? Heard of mechanical grip....?

ever heard of decent tyres? offer alot more grip than cheap ass indonesian tyres. i think you will find a set of brembos will pull up a GT pretty fucking quick and they run 245 19s. not many people will run anything bigger than that on the front its overkill and not needed.

new brakes are a much better stopping upgrade than adding a tiny percentage of tyre width.

Ef_frmnt wrote:ever heard of decent tyres? offer alot more grip than cheap ass indonesian tyres. i think you will find a set of brembos will pull up a GT pretty fucking quick and they run 245 19s. not many people will run anything bigger than that on the front its overkill and not needed.

new brakes are a much better stopping upgrade than adding a tiny percentage of tyre width.

I don't run cheap ass Indonesian tyres... but okay.
GT also weighs like 500kg more than a E series, so it has a fukload more mechanical grip because of that, especially when braking as its all transferred to the front end.

I know larger brakes will stop brake fade and shit, but a set of std size slotted rotors and decent pads will still stop a falcon just as quick as these massive brakes will, just not repeatedly.

67rce wrote:
Ever heard of 300+rwkw and stock E-Series brakes? Try it and see what you think about a brake upgrade then

I'm NOT saying a brake upgrade is a dumb idea, fuk I'll buy a set if theyre not stupidly priced!


All I'm saying is I'm not buying shit until its the right offset either AU or PRE AU
big wheels in e series sit rather close to the inner arm as it is, and running fat AU offset (or supra offset for example of +40) with this +28 offset of that kit, will make the wheel scrub on the arm - that I am confident of.

krisisdog wrote:I don't run cheap ass Indonesian tyres... but okay.
GT also weighs like 500kg more than a E series, so it has a fukload more mechanical grip because of that, especially when braking as its all transferred to the front end.

I know larger brakes will stop brake fade and shit, but a set of std size slotted rotors and decent pads will still stop a falcon just as quick as these massive brakes will, just not repeatedly.

Less weight = less momentum = less stopping force needed. while your yabbering on about mechanical grip... take out your brake pads, have a good look, maybe compare them to a set out of a BA, and think about how much mechanical grip they offer compared to a larger diameter rotor (which is for better heatsink effect mainly) and larger caliper/pad combination. then think about the force exerted by several pistons instead of just one. that is where the gains are to be had. not 235 vs 245 tyres.

krisisdog wrote:GT also weighs like 500kg more than a E series, so it has a fukload more mechanical grip because of that, especially when braking as its all transferred to the front end.

I pictured a GT doing a stoppie when I read that.

krisisdog wrote:All I'm saying is I'm not buying shit until its the right offset either AU or PRE AU

That's exactly how I feel too.

krisisdog wrote:I know larger brakes will stop brake fade and shit, but a set of std size slotted rotors and decent pads will still stop a falcon just as quick as these massive brakes will, just not repeatedly.

Which is my exact problem. I have slotted rotors already and have tried a few different types of pad (Bendix Ultimate, EBC Greenstuff, Bendix metal king etc) and they are OK for the first stop, but rooted after that, ie: First stop at the end of the front straight at QR they are ok, by the time I get to the end of the back straight during a powercruise session the pedal is nice and hard but the car doesn't stop for shit - it overheats the pads.

Also happens going around 6 or 7/10ths driving though mountains, it's seriously gay having to wonder how well the brakes are going to work this time as I head down a straight section before a corner

Also, I have 17x8" wheels on the front with only 225/65 Bridgestone tyres, and I've had to fold the crap out of the guards so the tyres don't catch all the time. If you don't have to fold your guards, the car isn't low enough

There are many reasons why bigger brakes are better, as per below:

a) Larger diameter rotors give more mechanical advantage to the brake calliper - it's like torquing up a bolt with a 1/2" drive ratchet compared to using a metre long breaker bar.

b) Larger discs and pads can absorb more heat energy before reaching a temperature where they become less/ineffective, and are better at dissipating heat because of the larger surface area of the disc/calliper.

c) More pistons 'even out' the pressure against the back of the pad - instead of pushing in the middle and having the middle of the pad being pressed hard against the disc and the leading and trailing edges not doing much, the entirety of the pad area is pressed equally against the disc.

d) Due to the increased mechanical advantage offered by the larger rotor and the higher friction levels offered by the larger pads, the actual force required from the brake pedal is reduced to achieve the same amount of retardation. Less required force means it is easier to modulate the pedal to hold the car just before the point of lockup - you don't have to mash the shit out of it then back off slightly from there, instead you just press it hard and work from that point.

etc.

Back to thread topic: Anyone have any pics of AU uprights/hubs/hubs removed?

Standard EF/EL Spindles, caliper slide bits lobbed off, ground, modified and new holes drilled (THE TIME CONSUMING BIT)
Part off disc surface on a standard rotor so you retain the hub/bearing setup (ends up being similar to a BA principle)
Slide Territory vented 330ish mm rotor over existing ground down modified rotor, with longer studs
Mount Territory twin piston rotor to spindle

Viola (walaa, howeer the heck you spell it) You have a brake upgrade kit

Budget, uber dodgy. But works. Issue is it only adds whatever a territory disc is thick to your offset. 10mm??

nothin suss wrote:Standard EF/EL Spindles, caliper slide bits lobbed off, ground, modified and new holes drilled (THE TIME CONSUMING BIT)
Part off disc surface on a standard rotor so you retain the hub/bearing setup (ends up being similar to a BA principle)
Slide Territory vented 330ish mm rotor over existing ground down modified rotor, with longer studs
Mount Territory twin piston rotor to spindle

Viola (walaa, howeer the heck you spell it) You have a brake upgrade kit

Budget, uber dodgy. But works. Issue is it only adds whatever a territory disc is thick to your offset. 10mm??

Someone do this! Then I can use my terry front brakes for something!

Seriously though, if anyone actually wants some pics or measurements, lemme know.

You have pretty much described the Cebco kit, except using a C5 style caliper instead of the C4
You can also do it with an EL GT 330mm rotor, but more exxy obviously.

Well it is definatly do-able... And heaps cheaper consumable parts than other mustang/el gt rotored parts.

nothin suss wrote:Well it is definatly do-able... And heaps cheaper consumable parts than other mustang/el gt rotored parts.

As a completely talentless hack, where could I get something like this done?

Would there be any way of making it either E-series or AU on offset, not in between?

Ive looked into this break stuff so much and unless u have a good mate that can machine everything for you then your best option i have found is Race Brakes Sydney kit. Ive pm a few people on ford forums and they all had very good things to say about the kit.

But if you have a mate that can machine everything then u can grab some AU onwards bigger brakes and fit them up as there pretty cheap.

It's so damn confusing.

Private9: Pics and measurements ASAP please.

I've got a whole AU front end in the shed. I'll try to put pics up tonight

private9 wrote:

nothin suss wrote:Well it is definatly do-able... And heaps cheaper consumable parts than other mustang/el gt rotored parts.

As a completely talentless hack, where could I get something like this done?

Would there be any way of making it either E-series or AU on offset, not in between?

If you do what nothin suss says, but use an EL GT rotor, it will stay E-series offset.

Anyone that does it, please get the upright heat treated after you grind the ears off.

That is basically what I would do if I wanted bigger brakes.

Malakai wrote:It's so damn confusing.

Private9: Pics and measurements ASAP please.

Will get some decent pics on the weekend.
Exactly what measurements would be helpful for people?

Here's the ones I have:

TUFED6 wrote:If you do what nothin suss says, but use an EL GT rotor, it will stay E-series offset.

Cool. Was just thinking AU offset might be good, as then I could run an AU diff and use the rear Terry brakes as well...

TUFED6 wrote:Anyone that does it, please get the upright heat treated after you grind the ears off.

That is basically what I would do if I wanted bigger brakes.

Any idea on where this sorta custom work can be done?