Setup your car for drifting....

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Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bushman » December 8th, 2009, 7:22 pm : benhards11 Likes this post

Well i am starting this thread as something of a falcon owners guide to drifting, and i really encourage people to make posts in here, about their car even if they dont drift it, something you have done suspension wise that has made their car handle better which could be used in drifting. heres a bit of a list off the top of my head that you'll need to start off with.

LSD - at a minimum, for street dutie car KAAZ would be best
Manuel
A Decent clutch - it will receive many "kicks" so it will have to handle the riggers of high rpm/hp/torque
Peddle box and firewall strengthened - as nearly everyone here knows peddle boxs are weak and have a habbit of breaking.
Stiff springs and shocks
Stronger/bigger sway bay front and rear
low profile tires - preferably stretched as these will make the car feel more stable, while maintaining good rear grip and front grip.

Those would be good items to start with.

Obviously the more power you make the easier it will be to spin the tires, which reduces the amount of "rear grip" you have.
Yes, rear grip is important, to give an example put some bald tires (smooth) on your car the next time it rains and attempt to drive up the street without spinning the tires through at least 3 gears, its very difficult to control. Yet if you had tires that had say 50% tread you would find you have more traction. and would be easier to control and wouldn't wheel spin as much. The more rear grip you have the easier your car will be to control during a slide, while old crappy "skid tires" will make your car just want to spin out.

Thats should do for the moment.

*NOTE i will not be held responsible for any health or property damage caused by anyone attempting to drift on public roads or race track. drive responsibley.
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby ed40 » December 8th, 2009, 7:39 pm

need more lock, less weight and more power :P
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby NUT347 » December 8th, 2009, 7:57 pm

Diff gears are important too, I found with the fairlane 4.11s where the best. Not everyones cup of tea but they served us well.

Also a small steering wheel helps alot too.

And make sure you have a fcking good clutch, you NEED that burst of power (clutch dump) to get you into the corner. I would say a handbrake is better, but we all know falcon handbrakes are shithouse.
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bushman » December 8th, 2009, 8:04 pm

NUT347 wrote:Diff gears are important too, I found with the fairlane 4.11s where the best. Not everyones cup of tea but they served us well.

Also a small steering wheel helps alot too.

And make sure you have a fcking good clutch, you NEED that burst of power (clutch dump) to get you into the corner. I would say a handbrake is better, but we all know falcon handbrakes are shithouse.


Small steering wheel? each to there own there, personally i find a normal sized one makes the car easier to control.
agreed on the handbrake. I got away with the handbrake at the last skid pan at QR but it needs to be adjusted again before i do any skid pan/ drifting work.
Hydraulic Handbrake would be the best here.
The diff gears would depend on the setup of the car your using but with the fairlane the 4.11's are the bomb just because i was the originall buyer then they passed 4 sets of hands after me lol :P
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby EvLmOnT » December 8th, 2009, 8:32 pm

i had front coil overs in my old fairmont, they seemd to go well :)
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby rat » December 8th, 2009, 8:40 pm

get the car as stiff as you can, a good clutch which can take the abuse and tyre selection like said above is pretty important. i found it way easier to drift with 205's then 195's.
lokka is a must i really dont think an lsd would cut it.
practice is the most important thing though i reckon. doing a few skids on the street is nothing like drifting on a track!
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bushman » December 8th, 2009, 9:11 pm

I found this on Modified car forums.
What Is Drifting?

The absolute bare bones aim of drifting is to get your car sideways(duh right?) around corners and straights. It doesn't really sound like the most complicated thing to do now, the thing is it's not really as easy as simply powersliding round corners.

The whole point is to keep a continuous drift(sideways movement). So instead of trying to correct the car out of a slide the driver attempts to overcorrect in a controlled way to continue the drift.
If you want to practice drifting, you'll need to find yourself a set of corners that are reasonably sharp and in quick succession.

A professional drifter has the skills to be able to link together numerous corners without ever gaining traction - so that is your goal!

There are two main ways to begin a drift.

1. This technique involves making use of the clutch and accelerator. Basically a driver will change down a gear (usually 2nd) rev the car to ~4 - 5000rpm(again depends on car), turn away from the corner then sharply back towards it. At the same time popping the clutch to cause the rear wheels to lose traction. Once traction is lost and the driver has started the drift it's a matter of controlling the accelerator and steering(more of this a little later).

2. The second technique is mainly used by fwd cars (infact it's the only way to drift fwd cars. With this method you need to make use of your hand brake.It's probably the easier method to learn initially. You simply need to pull up the hand brake when you are approaching the corner to break traction.

Once You've Broken Traction (what next?)

Ok so you've broken traction what next?

Keep your foot on the accelerator and adjust the direction of you car with the steering wheel. If you've ever been on a skid pan or slid your car around corners, you'll know that your car will travel in the direction of your front wheels even if you've lost traction at the rear.

Drifting is a bit of an art so you will really need to get to know your car before attempting anything to hairy. Trying to keep your car on the edge with out letting the tail spin right out. As you reach the end of the corner/turn, you'll need to get yourself lined up for the next turn. Again this will involve getting to know your car, how it handles drift etc etc

hope that gives you a good start :)


Some more useful info. *
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby Rollin » December 8th, 2009, 11:51 pm

Also required:

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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bentls » December 9th, 2009, 7:13 am

Keep your foot on the accelerator and adjust the direction of you car with the steering wheel. If you've ever been on a skid pan or slid your car around corners, you'll know that your car will travel in the direction of your front wheels even if you've lost traction at the rear.

now im no drift king but...... isnt most of it throttle steering not wheel steering....

keep foot buried is only gonna help so much... but too much and u loop blah blah blah....

elaborate for me rollin haha
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby lawler » December 9th, 2009, 8:43 am

bentls wrote:
Keep your foot on the accelerator and adjust the direction of you car with the steering wheel. If you've ever been on a skid pan or slid your car around corners, you'll know that your car will travel in the direction of your front wheels even if you've lost traction at the rear.

now im no drift king but...... isnt most of it throttle steering not wheel steering....

keep foot buried is only gonna help so much... but too much and u loop blah blah blah....

elaborate for me rollin haha



Yeah I was thinking the same when I read that.

I find I just use throtle to control it and basicly let the caster on the front wheels counter steer then just add a tad more.

But then it comes back to power vs grip in a low powered car you could possibly hold it flat but with dessent power its like having bald tyres.

And Ive found with tyres it deppends on the car what sized tyre work best. with my R31 had about 200-210rwkw it feel best on 225/50r16 not to bad on 205/55r16 and shocking on 185/65r14 but at powercrusie I was driving my mates 298.9rwk s13 on both 235/45r17 and 185/65r14 and on the smaller tyres it didnt feel much less controlerbale but I did have 3-4 people in the s13 at powercruise and it was in the crusie section so I wasnt going that hard.

and as for suspention setup with the rear end stiff shocks, swaybars and bushes but non the softer side of stiff springs so as to keep a bit of wight trasfer on accelertation out of courners


But thats just my 2c nodout some one will disagree because its jall about finding out what works for you and your car
so Just start with the basics then try diffrant tyre sizes and wheel alinments and that sort of stuff until you find somthing that works for you and feels nice to drift
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bentls » December 9th, 2009, 10:01 am

basically if you have a car thats in forza do the expensive homework setting up new parts and changing alignment and gearing on forza... find what works then go buy it in real life :D

and yeha thats what i was getting at, when drifting half the time ur not holding the wheel its doin its own thangggg
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby lawler » December 9th, 2009, 10:43 am

bentls wrote:basically if you have a car thats in forza do the expensive homework setting up new parts and changing alignment and gearing on forza... find what works then go buy it in real life :D

and yeha thats what i was getting at, when drifting half the time ur not holding the wheel its doin its own thangggg


Lol at fonza comment

But yeah the 31 I use to be able to take of from a t intersection in first turn a bit, boot it let go of the steering wheel and it would come out sideways then straiten up by its self
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bentls » December 9th, 2009, 11:31 am

yeh let go of wheel and it straightens itself up, feels awesome feeling the wheel turn on its own the first few times u do it an realised its a mint trick lol.. i used to try and do all the steering myself and used to epic fail it... :D still do, but last longer before failing now haha
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby lawler » December 9th, 2009, 11:52 am

bentls wrote:yeh let go of wheel and it straightens itself up, feels awesome feeling the wheel turn on its own the first few times u do it an realised its a mint trick lol.. i used to try and do all the steering myself and used to epic fail it... :D still do, but last longer before failing now haha


Yeah Ive tryed that once end ended up backwards. wouldnt have been so bad if aus spec r31 steering racks werant so slow in the ration
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bigdell » December 9th, 2009, 3:55 pm

for learning the basics of holding a car side ways find a nice smooth dirt road with some nice corners and try on there before you try on tar. but it will be very different but the main principles are the same.
(growing up on a farm does have some advantages).
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bentls » December 9th, 2009, 4:07 pm

bigdell wrote:(growing up on a farm does have some advantages).

yeah if you have a sister least you have a garanteed root.

jokes of course haha
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby NUT347 » December 9th, 2009, 4:58 pm

Bahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bigdell » December 9th, 2009, 5:03 pm

bentls wrote:
bigdell wrote:(growing up on a farm does have some advantages).

yeah if you have a sister least you have a garanteed root.

jokes of course haha

thats just wrong.
and i don't like in Tasmania.
and i don't have a sister.
but my neighbor has daughters.
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby 67rce » December 9th, 2009, 5:16 pm

bigdell wrote:
bentls wrote:
bigdell wrote:(growing up on a farm does have some advantages).

yeah if you have a sister least you have a garanteed root.

jokes of course haha

thats just wrong.
and i don't like in Tasmania.
and i don't have a sister.
but my neighbor has daughters.


Even better then, they are legal!
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby lawler » December 9th, 2009, 5:25 pm

bigdell wrote:
bentls wrote:
bigdell wrote:(growing up on a farm does have some advantages).

yeah if you have a sister least you have a garanteed root.

jokes of course haha

thats just wrong.
and i don't like in Tasmania.
and i don't have a sister.
but my neighbor has daughters.


I resent that tasmania comment
It wasnt called for lol
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby Rollin » December 9th, 2009, 5:58 pm

Actually that is something that a lot of people have trouble with - as you pop the clutch you really need to let go of the steering wheel and let the car do the countersteering for you. It's much faster and more accurate than doing it for yourself - You just have to learn when to grab it again.
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby NUT347 » December 9th, 2009, 6:48 pm

What would you know Dan, you've never drifted anything in your life :-P
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bushman » December 9th, 2009, 9:19 pm

Rollin wrote:Actually that is something that a lot of people have trouble with - as you pop the clutch you really need to let go of the steering wheel and let the car do the countersteering for you. It's much faster and more accurate than doing it for yourself - You just have to learn when to grab it again.


A hand brake is also useful aye rollin, lol. mine got a good work out friday night, but it was to mainly turn under steer into over steer :( not enough poke for the big track.

If you set the suspension up a bit stiffer in the rear in a lower powered car, and added some toe out in the rear it would have help unsettle the car ? and make it slide a bit better, you wouldn't need much though.

While harder to control i've also found that some isaac newton drifting can also work well lol, slighly scary to those not as dumb as me lol, but mega fun. a guy at archefield drift practice tonight employed it well. he had what appeared to be a r30 or r31 wagon naturally aspirated, and auto, i dont think this thing and any shocks in it or sway bays it was body roll 90% of the way that got him drifting, the other 10% was his running on 5 dirty 30 it sounded like someone had taken a shit in cylinder 3. lol but he did well i must admit. and there was also a guy there with a set of space savers on the rear of his S13, and i have never ever seen tires smoke so quick or so thick in my life, i am definatly gunna try it. :D
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bushman » December 9th, 2009, 9:23 pm

Rollin wrote:Actually that is something that a lot of people have trouble with - as you pop the clutch you really need to let go of the steering wheel and let the car do the countersteering for you. It's much faster and more accurate than doing it for yourself - You just have to learn when to grab it again.


A hand brake is also useful aye rollin, lol. mine got a good work out friday night, but it was to mainly turn under steer into over steer :( not enough poke for the big track.

If you set the suspension up a bit stiffer in the rear in a lower powered car, and added some toe out in the rear it would have help unsettle the car ? and make it slide a bit better, you wouldn't need much though.

While harder to control i've also found that some isaac newton drifting can also work well lol, slighly scary to those not as dumb as me lol, but mega fun. a guy at archefield drift practice tonight employed it well. he had what appeared to be a r30 or r31 wagon naturally aspirated, and auto, i dont think this thing and any shocks in it or sway bays it was body roll 90% of the way that got him drifting, the other 10% was his running on 5 dirty 30 it sounded like someone had taken a shit in cylinder 3. lol but he did well i must admit. and there was also a guy there with a set of space savers on the rear of his S13, and i have never ever seen tires smoke so quick or so thick in my life, i am definatly gunna try it. :D I also got told at power cruise that bleach will make tires smoke hard and fast as well, i still haven't tried that though i'll have to this weekend :-P
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby lawler » December 10th, 2009, 10:35 am

Just a randon idea I had. Would say dan and a few other of you that drift a fair bit mind posting your wheel aliment specs e.g. camber, caster and toe just to give an idea to peolpe who want to give drifting a try can get an idea of set ups.

Person apion is that the wheel aliment is what makes or brakes a set up. you can spend as much as you want on suspention and if the wheel aliment is shit it will handle like shit. But yet in quite a few case wheel alinments just dont get done right
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby Rollin » December 10th, 2009, 5:56 pm

My car is set up at 1.25* neg camber, 0 toe, and as much castor as they could get (which isn't much on early e-series, IIRC about 4* or something?)

If you wanted a more track based setup you'd use as much camber as you could (2* or more) and I reckon you'd toe the wheels in a bit to compensate for toe changes due to ackerman angles (with stock cars on full lock your 'leading' wheel is turned further than the 'trailing' wheel, so the trailing wheel drags and slows the front down, making it easier to spin).

Not sure if the toe changes are a good plan though, I've not actually tried it. In theory it's great lol.
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby lawler » December 10th, 2009, 9:25 pm

Rollin wrote:My car is set up at 1.25* neg camber, 0 toe, and as much castor as they could get (which isn't much on early e-series, IIRC about 4* or something?)

If you wanted a more track based setup you'd use as much camber as you could (2* or more) and I reckon you'd toe the wheels in a bit to compensate for toe changes due to ackerman angles (with stock cars on full lock your 'leading' wheel is turned further than the 'trailing' wheel, so the trailing wheel drags and slows the front down, making it easier to spin).

Not sure if the toe changes are a good plan though, I've not actually tried it. In theory it's great lol.



My mates use about 1 deg toe in and once the wheel aliment was done nutral and the next day he got it chaged back to toe in because it was nowere near as responsive in the steering but hes never had it on a track but it seems to work on private roads
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby SNR » December 11th, 2009, 11:34 am

That might explain why my EB gets so taily (front toe/ackerman)

Or it could be the lack of an uprated rear sway (i'm running adjustable @ 32mm equivalent on the front)
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby BI6TIM » December 11th, 2009, 8:08 pm

Dan, I had about 6 degrees castor on my ED and had a plan to get more into it but I sold it before I got around to it.

If you have and adjustable rear end you need toe in on the rear, falcons are obviously not adjustable in the rear.
Toe settings are a bit of a personal choice and vary depending on where you're use the car most.
With my falcon, on the front, I had 1.25deg neg camber and 1mm total toe in to compensate for the negative camber as far as tire wear goes.
As I said above, I had nearly 6deg castor on it. I had the toe in because it was mostly driven on the street.

If you want wicked turn in you need heaps of neg camber, heaps of castor and toe out. That sort of a setup is more for the serious car/driver.
Dan you are somewhat right in theory about the toe in helping with mid corner stability but in practise it actually work the opposite way.

On my S14, for track duties, I have 2deg neg camber all round, 1mm per side toe in on the rear, 0mm toe on the front and it has 8degrees castor on the front at all times. Had it on the track last Friday night and it was awesome, until the engine gave up of course.
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby NUT347 » December 11th, 2009, 11:49 pm

The motor blew up Tim?
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby BI6TIM » December 12th, 2009, 7:02 am

Well it has this ticking noise, if you've never heard it before and don't have experience with SR20, you'd swear it's some kind of valve train noise but apparently you'd be wrong. I took it down to John at Hi-Power Racing for him to have a listen to it and he got this concerned look on his face straight away. Apparently it's something to do with a piston. Only two choices, replace motor or rebuild motor, so I'm going to do both.

John said it was because of the mods the car has without proper management and an exhaust leak on top of that. Works fine for the daily driver but when it comes to the stresses of track work, that sort of setup doesn't cut it, clearly.

Anyway, to make this post relevant to the thread, here's a piece of advise all should take on: Never get a wheel alignment at a tire shop, they make their money from selling tires, why would they give you a good wheel alignment when they can make money out of you wearing tires quickly.
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby lawler » December 12th, 2009, 9:48 am

Oh and chose carfly where you get tyres fitted and wheel aliments done.

A mate got new tyres only didnt get a wheel aliment or anything done on his gtr and the jouinor manger decided he needed to test drive it and when my mate picked it up it didnt had 3rd gear and the company got out of fixing it with some bullshit about needing to road test to make shore the tyres were balanced correctly and the person who was driving didnt cain it it was the clutch is to harsh for the gearbox and recomended that my mate get a softer clutch
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bushman » December 14th, 2009, 7:57 pm

[
Oh and chose carfly where you get tyres fitted and wheel aliments done.

Carefully

lawler wrote:
A mate got new tyres only didnt get a wheel aliment or anything done on his gtr and the jouinor manger decided he needed to test drive it and when my mate picked it up it didnt had 3rd gear and the company got out of fixing it with some bullshit about needing to road test to make shore the tyres were balanced correctly and the person who was driving didnt cain it it was the clutch is to harsh for the gearbox and recomended that my mate get a softer clutch


What a bunch of assholes i'd fire bomb that shit.
Rollin wrote:Watch this space people - the man from the bush can steer :)



........ After owning several.... more than I care to admit I have come to the conclusion that E series are shit.
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby ruleford » December 14th, 2009, 8:09 pm

BI6TIM wrote:Well it has this ticking noise, if you've never heard it before and don't have experience with SR20, you'd swear it's some kind of valve train noise but apparently you'd be wrong. I took it down to John at Hi-Power Racing for him to have a listen to it and he got this concerned look on his face straight away. Apparently it's something to do with a piston. Only two choices, replace motor or rebuild motor, so I'm going to do both.

John said it was because of the mods the car has without proper management and an exhaust leak on top of that. Works fine for the daily driver but when it comes to the stresses of track work, that sort of setup doesn't cut it, clearly.

Anyway, to make this post relevant to the thread, here's a piece of advise all should take on: Never get a wheel alignment at a tire shop, they make their money from selling tires, why would they give you a good wheel alignment when they can make money out of you wearing tires quickly.


sorry to hijack the thread

but this is so true i work at nissan and they are commen to get piston movement if they get alot of canning and if they are babied but other them that they are a awsome motor
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bushman » December 14th, 2009, 8:19 pm

RB30/26 that shit :grin: cool factor increase by 11ty billion gazillion%
Rollin wrote:Watch this space people - the man from the bush can steer :)



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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby lawler » December 15th, 2009, 11:56 am

bushman wrote:RB30/26 that shit :grin: cool factor increase by 11ty billion gazillion%


Or 25/30 for half the price and just as good for 300rwkw with a shit load of midrange

Just a bit of boonet clearing might take abit and a bit of stuffing to get it to handle right
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby Rollin » December 15th, 2009, 7:29 pm

Pfft build the SR and mount it 6" further back and a bit lower with V mount radiator and cooler = win for drift/circuit.
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby BI6TIM » December 15th, 2009, 7:31 pm

lawler wrote:Or 25/30 a bit of stuffing to get it to handle right

No such thing as handling right with a 6cyl in an S-chassis car. My 200 will never have anything other than SR20 in it. If it breaks again while drifting it will not drift again, simple.

Back on topic of handling, if you want to greatly improve the handling of your falcon, put an SR20 in it! Throw some Pedders coil overs in the front and my custom King springs and Oztec shocks in the back. 30mm front sway bar and 28mm rear bar (which I can also supply for you). That would be a sweat setup for drift.
All that stuff above would also be sweet in a falcon even without an SR20 :P
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby bushman » December 15th, 2009, 8:36 pm

BI6TIM wrote: My 200 will never have anything other than SR20 in it. If it breaks again while drifting it will not drift again, simple.


Maybe you just shouldn't drift?

Back on topic of handling, if you want to greatly improve the handling of your falcon, put an SR20 in it! Throw some Pedders coil overs in the front and my custom King springs and Oztec shocks in the back. 30mm front sway bar and 28mm rear bar (which I can also supply for you). That would be a sweat setup for drift.


SR20 in a falcon = FAIL, as fucked up an idea as hitler is dead.
Why not have a larger sway bar in the rear?
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Re: Setup your car for drifting....

Postby Rollin » December 15th, 2009, 11:14 pm

28 is pretty big - my bars are 32mm front and 27 rear...
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