HP + MPH + Manual

Car Setups, Photos, Discussions

HP + MPH + Manual

Postby Michael (HYPOEB) » May 12th, 2013, 2:55 pm

Just interested in people's throughts on this topic.

Example:

Lets say a 350rwkw auto car runs a 10.5 @ 125mph
Would you expect a manual car with the same power to run 125mph as well?
Obviously the time would be slower but would you expect the MPH to be roughly the same?
BA XT Wagon: Stock.

EA SVO: Stock.

EBT-747: -

Image
User avatar
Michael (HYPOEB)
Hitting N2O
 
Posts: 3125
Joined: November 4th, 2008, 3:09 pm
Location: Morwell Vic
Has Liked: 73 times
Been Liked: 261 times

1993 Ford Falcon

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby NUT347 » May 12th, 2013, 3:08 pm

Well, not really.

The auto will have more power (if the same dyno) at the engine then the manual, because autos read less power on a dyno.

But if you had 2 cars the exact same, one auto and one manual both with eg: 550fwhp the manual one will run a higher mph.

I'm interested to see iCERs input on this topic.
NUT347
Melting Pistons
 
Posts: 7553
Joined: June 22nd, 2008, 7:09 pm
Location: Brisbane
Has Liked: 911 times
Been Liked: 1254 times

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby crusty2 » May 12th, 2013, 4:35 pm

if both cars are identical power at the rears and weight,so on and so forth.
The auto will be the winner unless the bloke driving the manual is a demon shifter.
Drag racers generally do autos as it cuts down shift time,unless its an air shifted lenco.
As for the manual running the same time,no due to shifting time. :)
EFxr6 turbo,c4 good for 750hp,sm4 autronic ecu,65lb siemens decka injectors,mike vine t04B custom turbo and manifold and piping,stock as a rock bottom end with decomp plate and standard intake manifold,making 370kw atw at 20psi.
making general owners cry on a daily basis.
crusty2
Cruising
 
Posts: 272
Joined: July 11th, 2011, 4:36 pm
Has Liked: 23 times
Been Liked: 13 times

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby Michael (HYPOEB) » May 12th, 2013, 4:43 pm

Yeh I no that auto would be faster in every way, more talking at the difference in mph between the two. Probably abit of a noob question Nut but why would the manual run higher mph then the auto?
Also interested in icer's input :P
Last edited by Michael (HYPOEB) on May 12th, 2013, 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BA XT Wagon: Stock.

EA SVO: Stock.

EBT-747: -

Image
User avatar
Michael (HYPOEB)
Hitting N2O
 
Posts: 3125
Joined: November 4th, 2008, 3:09 pm
Location: Morwell Vic
Has Liked: 73 times
Been Liked: 261 times

1993 Ford Falcon

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby NUT347 » May 12th, 2013, 4:54 pm

Just to clarify, you can't compare RWKW with a manual and auto car with the same specs. It needs to be fwkw.

Michael, an auto will accelerate quicker and finish sooner over 400m, which means it picks up less speed.

A manual takes longer to complete the auto so picks up more speed (if that makes sense??)

I hope I'm right lol.
NUT347
Melting Pistons
 
Posts: 7553
Joined: June 22nd, 2008, 7:09 pm
Location: Brisbane
Has Liked: 911 times
Been Liked: 1254 times

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby crusty2 » May 12th, 2013, 4:55 pm

Michael (HYPOEB) wrote:Yeh I no that auto would be faster in every way, more talking at the difference in mph between the two. Probably abit of a new question Nut but why would the manual run higher mph then the auto?
Also interested in icer's input :P



I have only seen the mph higher out of a manual a couple of times over the years,couldnt tell you why.
I am also interested in nuts answer to this.
Possibly some mathematical theory or enersia (sp).
Maybe he could show us practically ,with a real life trial towing Raymond daley? :thumbsup:
EFxr6 turbo,c4 good for 750hp,sm4 autronic ecu,65lb siemens decka injectors,mike vine t04B custom turbo and manifold and piping,stock as a rock bottom end with decomp plate and standard intake manifold,making 370kw atw at 20psi.
making general owners cry on a daily basis.
crusty2
Cruising
 
Posts: 272
Joined: July 11th, 2011, 4:36 pm
Has Liked: 23 times
Been Liked: 13 times

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby Michael (HYPOEB) » May 12th, 2013, 5:05 pm

Yeh I'm with you, it makes sense! Lol
BA XT Wagon: Stock.

EA SVO: Stock.

EBT-747: -

Image
User avatar
Michael (HYPOEB)
Hitting N2O
 
Posts: 3125
Joined: November 4th, 2008, 3:09 pm
Location: Morwell Vic
Has Liked: 73 times
Been Liked: 261 times

1993 Ford Falcon

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby PSI-POP » May 12th, 2013, 5:18 pm

Surely converter slip comes into this.

Though unless your dynoing just the motor you wont get two 350rwkw cars that are auto and manual. The autos probably 400+ depending on the auto and how the stall is built.
Southern Performance
PSI-POP - ED Gli -DOHC, GT42R, Glide and 9"
9.43@155mph - 1.6 60ft - 275 Radials
User avatar
PSI-POP
Idling
 
Posts: 150
Joined: April 5th, 2009, 9:56 pm
Has Liked: 2 times
Been Liked: 52 times

1993 Ford Falcon

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby NUT347 » May 12th, 2013, 5:26 pm

Which is why I said fwkw.

I did some googling, auto cars get to a peak quicker but stay there (eg: 115mph) because of converter slip as psipop said, but a manual car will keep accelerating. But you have to have similar diff gears.

So many different scenarios can change the outcome though :?
NUT347
Melting Pistons
 
Posts: 7553
Joined: June 22nd, 2008, 7:09 pm
Location: Brisbane
Has Liked: 911 times
Been Liked: 1254 times

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby 67rce » May 12th, 2013, 6:34 pm

Even shift times would change MPH in a manual. Slow shifting = less time accelerating = momentary coasting = lower mph. There wouldn't be much in it though, maybe 1-2mph.
Cammed Suzuki Baleno, Haltech PS1000, E85
User avatar
67rce
Breaking Intake Welds
 
Posts: 4073
Joined: October 27th, 2007, 3:39 pm
Location: Brisbane
Has Liked: 170 times
Been Liked: 100 times

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby Fritzz » May 22nd, 2013, 11:48 am : esppwr, phillyc Likes this post

My el on the exact same tune went from 10.6 @ 140 with manual to 9.6 @ 142 with auto no other changes at all..

on the dyno it went from making 800rwhp to 700rwhp going from manual to auto and no other changes
# 1997 EL Falcon GLI - Custom built AU 4L bottom end, Precision PT8285, Nizpro plenum, 6boost manifold, Autronic SM4, Custom billet camtech camshaft, Custom 4" exhaust with magnaflow mufler, ID2000 injectors, 60mm Turbosmart gate, Turbosmart race port BOV, Turbosmart FPR1200 reg, , Reid powerglide, Cebco 330mm Brakes, 3.5:1 9" diff with billet axles and trutrack center, E85!857rwhp

# 2008 FPV FG GTE - Stock on sssl's
User avatar
Fritzz
Breaking Traction
 
Posts: 1106
Joined: August 3rd, 2007, 10:48 pm
Location: WA
Has Liked: 71 times
Been Liked: 233 times

1997 Ford EL

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby iCER » May 22nd, 2013, 12:17 pm

sorry just saw this thread :D

Auto will always run faster down the track. PEnding how lose the convertor is (if any) will determin MPH.

* Manual will run a slower time but more MPH then an auto with same power no convertor
* Manual will run a slower time but similar MPH then an auto with same power on dyno with a convertor (pending how lose it is and how much it chews up on dyno (roughly 20-30rwkw average) as the manual will pick up more top end.

Welcome :)
Dyno-Mite Performance Tuned
+480RWKW on ~24psi 140+MPH CLUB
Current Fastest time: 10.05 @ 136mph on 275 ET streets.

Mod list: http://www.boostedfalcon.net/garage_vehicle.php?mode=view_vehicle&VID=138
User avatar
iCER
Full Boost
 
Posts: 2271
Joined: April 21st, 2010, 11:24 am
Has Liked: 58 times
Been Liked: 57 times

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby 67rce » May 22nd, 2013, 12:57 pm : SnyperEB Likes this post

Yes, because the guy with the theoretical 9 second car knows more than the guy with the 9 second car :banghead:
Cammed Suzuki Baleno, Haltech PS1000, E85
User avatar
67rce
Breaking Intake Welds
 
Posts: 4073
Joined: October 27th, 2007, 3:39 pm
Location: Brisbane
Has Liked: 170 times
Been Liked: 100 times

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby Michael (HYPOEB) » May 22nd, 2013, 1:14 pm

Fritzz wrote:My el on the exact same tune went from 10.6 @ 140 with manual to 9.6 @ 142 with auto no other changes at all..

on the dyno it went from making 800rwhp to 700rwhp going from manual to auto and no other changes


Interesting, that's a good example.
Were you using any type of 2step/launch control back when you were using he manual?
BA XT Wagon: Stock.

EA SVO: Stock.

EBT-747: -

Image
User avatar
Michael (HYPOEB)
Hitting N2O
 
Posts: 3125
Joined: November 4th, 2008, 3:09 pm
Location: Morwell Vic
Has Liked: 73 times
Been Liked: 261 times

1993 Ford Falcon

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby Fritzz » May 22nd, 2013, 2:06 pm

Yeh was using the launch control in the autronic
# 1997 EL Falcon GLI - Custom built AU 4L bottom end, Precision PT8285, Nizpro plenum, 6boost manifold, Autronic SM4, Custom billet camtech camshaft, Custom 4" exhaust with magnaflow mufler, ID2000 injectors, 60mm Turbosmart gate, Turbosmart race port BOV, Turbosmart FPR1200 reg, , Reid powerglide, Cebco 330mm Brakes, 3.5:1 9" diff with billet axles and trutrack center, E85!857rwhp

# 2008 FPV FG GTE - Stock on sssl's
User avatar
Fritzz
Breaking Traction
 
Posts: 1106
Joined: August 3rd, 2007, 10:48 pm
Location: WA
Has Liked: 71 times
Been Liked: 233 times

1997 Ford EL

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby Michael (HYPOEB) » May 22nd, 2013, 2:34 pm

I plan on doing the same with the motec.
Where ou also using the flat shift? (If the Autronic has that)
BA XT Wagon: Stock.

EA SVO: Stock.

EBT-747: -

Image
User avatar
Michael (HYPOEB)
Hitting N2O
 
Posts: 3125
Joined: November 4th, 2008, 3:09 pm
Location: Morwell Vic
Has Liked: 73 times
Been Liked: 261 times

1993 Ford Falcon

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby TUFED6 » May 22nd, 2013, 2:52 pm : iCER, Michael (HYPOEB), Pub247 Likes this post

Does anyone know if an auto will be quicker over the quarter?

Hopefully someone can chime in with a fucken obvious answer.
User avatar
TUFED6
Full Boost
 
Posts: 2926
Joined: July 13th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: I put the fuk into shima
Has Liked: 2 times
Been Liked: 434 times

1994 Ford Falcon

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby Fritzz » May 24th, 2013, 1:48 am

Michael (HYPOEB) wrote:I plan on doing the same with the motec.
Where ou also using the flat shift? (If the Autronic has that)


I did start to set up flat shift but never got around to using it, would be awesome if it was set up spot on, would make massive difference to times
# 1997 EL Falcon GLI - Custom built AU 4L bottom end, Precision PT8285, Nizpro plenum, 6boost manifold, Autronic SM4, Custom billet camtech camshaft, Custom 4" exhaust with magnaflow mufler, ID2000 injectors, 60mm Turbosmart gate, Turbosmart race port BOV, Turbosmart FPR1200 reg, , Reid powerglide, Cebco 330mm Brakes, 3.5:1 9" diff with billet axles and trutrack center, E85!857rwhp

# 2008 FPV FG GTE - Stock on sssl's
User avatar
Fritzz
Breaking Traction
 
Posts: 1106
Joined: August 3rd, 2007, 10:48 pm
Location: WA
Has Liked: 71 times
Been Liked: 233 times

1997 Ford EL

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby OMY-747 » May 31st, 2013, 11:35 am

I always thought it was more along the lines of when the cars run the same quarter mile times that the manual will always have higher mph. Which seems to ring true with fritz stating that by only changing from manual to auto and nothing else he has ran 1 second quicker, with 2mph more with the auto.
240rwkw, 6 speed manual wagon. Good times indeed.
User avatar
OMY-747
Full Boost
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: August 1st, 2008, 10:28 am
Has Liked: 59 times
Been Liked: 58 times

Re: HP + MPH + Manual

Postby Mr. CVE » August 2nd, 2013, 11:24 pm

Auto cars have the benefit of torque multiplication in the converter, where a manual is 1:1 lock up in each gear.

This is one reason why an auto car ( with a good converter ) can et quicker.
But when both cars are in top gear the auto will still have some converter slip, than manual car wont.
CVE Performance, Now tuning E Series ecus !!
http://www.cveperformance.com
User avatar
Mr. CVE
Breaking Traction
 
Posts: 1922
Joined: July 23rd, 2007, 8:07 pm
Has Liked: 49 times
Been Liked: 188 times


Return to Drags, Drift & Track

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron