MPH VS RWKW u sure u want to go ahead?

[Tiga_EL]

Do you drive a VL by any chance?...It's got nothing to do with anything, just a question.

You cant stereotype a person based on the type of car they drive... Everyone just has differing views on the topic at hand, and since theres no real resolution, kunts start resulting to personal comments...

[galapogos01]

Paul doesnt actually own a dyno?

Last time I ran my car it read less on Hallam Performance's dyno than it did at F1 Performance. Runs were a few years apart though.

BLC's car was dyno'd 23xrwkw at Dalton in geelong and ran a similar MPH to EBGLT.

[ebturb]

Ok throttle bodies
cam
head
v500 computer
bigger injectors.
Uknown bottom end 60thou pistons tho. This notes that i have never touched the bottom end in the build
Vernia cam gear( or whatever it spelt)

The one 175rwkw was registerd on Mikes dyno.
I have registered
168.9 as highest on hallam

well with that i would hope for higher

i had....
std TB
stock bottom end
std ecu
std injectors
minor head work
cam
valve springs
vernia cam gear

nothin more an i made 174.7 so its on par for same dyno different day

[Hiboost]

ill say this again, if u take off from the start line and have wheel spin till haf the track i guess u are already doing some MPH, then at half track u get traction and u then have 200m left... so u are not starting from 0MPH from half a track

Yes, but you sure as hell won't be doing the same speed at half track as you would be if you were accelerating constantly with no wheelspin, would you?

mate u dont get it ill just give up on u....ull understand one day when u race ...

[Thanatos]

Thanatos, all variables set aside, i have seen cars do numerous runs on the same night, with perfect launches and smokey launches, all having MPH within a few miles of each other

Which just backs up exactly what I'm saying... the cars you have seen have lost a few MPH from wheelspin (while all other variables were the same)!

Now, if you're comparing two different cars, then there are weight, driver, suspension, power curve, tyre grip, etc. etc. etc. differences to consider as well. How can that not make a difference to MPH??

[OED666]

just watching some vid's of my tinbox...

14.02 @ 99MPH, with wheel spin through first, chirping 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

13.82 @ 99.67 with no apparent wheel spin

and

One from last year.

I did a 16.04 at 95MPH.. haha... peg legging LSD!!!

Now, I have also been in front of a supra to nearly half track once, (both had a similar reaction time) and he then farken went into space and had a trap speed of 120MPH! :O

[arm79]

What did I miss ??
Sorry Dyno figure inflater sprung a leak ! and 'big bill' machine was low on batteries !

nah you can have this one. I know ARM79 said I will ALWAYS be the bigger man, I will let you have this one 'on the house'

Well... Here you go then!

I suppose the story goes something like this..

Quite some time ago I had a crack at Dan about some dyno figures he and Paul had achieved with the blue AU Dan once proudly owned... A few posts and PM's were exchanged, and it came down to "why does dyno A read such and dyno B read something different?"

I had my EL run on Hallams dyno before and achieved 141rwkw with just extractors... Whereas every other dyno it ever ran on (yes including JMM) it only ever did 119 to 121. Inflation much??? And when this question was posed, in all of Mr CVE's widsom, he was unable to answer. The only common difference was the higher figures were always achieved on a Shootout Mode Dyno. So we set about organising a dyno comparison.

I organised a mate with a dyno, and Paul organised Hallam, the idea being to run them back to back to see the differences. It ended up being a Thursday night at my mates and Saturday morning at Hallam. Some prior research and chats with Dyno Dynamics confirmed that same software versions will always provide same results. Internal calculations and sensors would always make sure atmospheric conditions would be accounted and compensated for.

So with that knowledge, we ran my car up and on its second run, it blew the heater hose under the manifold... ****.. Spent time fixing that and filling it back up and went for another run. Ended up at 120rwkw, as expected. Paul suggested moving the wheel chocks forward to let the car rise up on the rollers and come off the back roller, which resulted in 125rwkw. He then pointed out "how easy it is to fool a dyno". I pointed out that "it still wasnt 140rwkw"!

Next ran the BA up, and from memory it ended up with 200/205rwkw... Much less than Paul expected, as obviously it had been on other dynos before.

Ivan then demonstrated to Paul all the necessary keys to press to obtain "fudge factors" and "compensation factors" and showed what affect they had on the results.

We agreed to try for the Saturday morning, and I would try fix my car before then. The hose we put on was some old crap we cut off an XF that Ivan had lying about.

Come Friday, we spoke and I said to Paul "cant do tomorrow. I didn't change the hose and the headgasket is blown. I wont put it back on and stress it while I know about that". Paul complained about his time and blah blah. I just said "You wouldn't run your car up under those circumstances, its unfair to ask me to.I'll fix it and get back to you and try again soon." Headgasket was done 2 weeks later - Fucken I6's.

In the meantime, Ivan told me that he had someone from Dyno Dynamics coming out and I should come question... So I did.

I asked the simple question of why the difference, and I was told:

"Shootout mode provides a fixed value that compensate for power losses in the drivetrain. This value is different for 4, 6 and 8's, hence why you need to select what motor you are running before doing the dyno run. This will also mean the figures will be inflated compared to non shootout mode. Standard software just takes the raw power figure that is generated by the wheels and reports it".

And this would assume there were no outside influences, but that is the answer.

I passed this along to Paul, and since we had the answer, we closed the case. Simple as that.

So with this information in mind, do we assume that Shootout dynos and software attempt to provide a fwkw figure, rather than a rwkw figure???

Now, Paul, tell me how this differs from your memory? Because according to you, I backed out cos I was a chicken.

[Hiboost]

Paul doesnt actually own a dyno?

Last time I ran my car it read less on Hallam Performance's dyno than it did at F1 Performance. Runs were a few years apart though.

BLC's car was dyno'd 23xrwkw at Dalton in geelong and ran a similar MPH to EBGLT.

YES i know that BUT u uses HALLAM dyno? and he operates it when his tuneing the car?

[arm79]

****... 3 pages already...

Things move quickly here.

[Gozza]

i never said lost or gained haha. 1-2 mph is basically the same to me. Im not getting into 1/4 track , 1/2 crazy retarded simulated fantasies.

I will say a munted launch compared to a decent launch will still eventuate in a similar MPH (+/- a mph or two)

[t1MMy]

Do you drive a VL by any chance?...It's got nothing to do with anything, just a question.

You cant stereotype a person based on the type of car they drive... Everyone just has differing views on the topic at hand, and since theres no real resolution, kunts start resulting to personal comments...

Mate, I wasn't stereotyping him at all. I asked becasue I thought he may of been someone I know of who actually happens to drive a VL and has his stuff done by Rajab with the same or similar specs that are in his sig.

[BROCKYB8]

Hiboost are you on this forum to try and shoot everyone down?
Do you drive a VL by any chance?...It's got nothing to do with anything, just a question.

ok ill tell u why, ive been ripped off with workshops, ive paid heaps of $$$ to them only to find out i was getting ripped and the DYNO figures were wrong, they sweet talk to u then they get the money and give u a sick ass dyno graph. and NO i dont drive a VL

Ok quick question. Has mr cve done this to you.
If he has id understand .
If he hasnt tho then i think your putting him in category with people done u wrong.

[Thanatos]

but it should atleast RUN the MPH it should have. if its not setup for the track.

That day my car ran 4 completely different MPH figures on all four runs, ranging from 91(point something)MPH when I missed third, to 98(point something)MPH on a low 15 second run. My fastest run was only about 94 or so MPH.

How can there be so much fluctuation if the power of the car was the same each time??

I didn't make any mods in between to alter the power of my car, so by your logic it should have run the exact same MPH on EVERY single run right?

[Hiboost]

but it should atleast RUN the MPH it should have. if its not setup for the track.

That day my car ran 4 completely different MPH figures on all four runs, ranging from 91(point something)MPH when I missed third, to 98(point something)MPH on a low 15 second run. My fastest run was only about 94 or so MPH.

How can there be so much fluctuation if the power of the car was the same each time??

I didn't make any mods in between to alter the power of my car, so by your logic it should have run the exact same MPH on EVERY single run right?

yes its only a few MPH out from each.... like i said it should be close to the MPH it should run.

[Dansedgli]

My AU was sick.

[galapogos01]

What MPH should a 230rwkw car run then?

Edit: My EA was sick but it never got dynoed

[EFFalcon]

i know a few people are trying to attack paul's credability.

but... how many 8 second cars have any of you built?
how many 500rwkw cars have any of you built?

for that matter, how many turbo eseries have you built/tuned?

everyone seems to be questioning Hallam's dyno.
Yet based on all the figures being spread around on it, its inconclusive if its high/low

[ebturb]

Hiboost are you on this forum to try and shoot everyone down?
Do you drive a VL by any chance?...It's got nothing to do with anything, just a question.

ok ill tell u why, ive been ripped off with workshops, ive paid heaps of $$$ to them only to find out i was getting ripped and the DYNO figures were wrong, they sweet talk to u then they get the money and give u a sick ass dyno graph. and NO i dont drive a VL

Ok quick question. Has mr cve done this to you.
If he has id understand .
If he hasnt tho then i think your putting him in category with people done u wrong.

In hiboosts defence i know of a few ppl

[Hiboost]

What MPH should a 230rwkw car run then?

Edit: My EA was sick but it never got dynoed

its should be on atleast 112mph if i can remember correctly

[EFFalcon]

In hiboosts defence i know of a few ppl

most workshops have a few horror stories

[BROCKYB8]

Ok throttle bodies
cam
head
v500 computer
bigger injectors.
Uknown bottom end 60thou pistons tho. This notes that i have never touched the bottom end in the build
Vernia cam gear( or whatever it spelt)

The one 175rwkw was registerd on Mikes dyno.
I have registered
168.9 as highest on hallam

well with that i would hope for higher

i had....
std TB
stock bottom end
std ecu
std injectors
minor head work
cam
valve springs
vernia cam gear

nothin more an i made 174.7 so its on par for same dyno different day

Well yeah fair enought on that but as everyone one said in here different dynos different days .

[Dansedgli]

Horror stories are the dirty secret of the internet.

1 good tune = 11ty posts.

1 bad tune = nothing said.

[ebturb]

In hiboosts defence i know of a few ppl

most workshops have a few horror stories

and some back yard jobs done with mates lol

[BLC]

i know a few people are trying to attack paul's credability.

but... how many 8 second cars have any of you built?
how many 500rwkw cars have any of you built?

for that matter, how many turbo eseries have you built/tuned?

Adding to this post, like I said before, there's more to a tune than just a dyno figure. CVE provided really good service when I was there, and I'd be happy to, and have, reccomend them to mates. I made 157rwkw N/A... it felt about right. Maybe it was 143? MAybe it was 160? It'll never be a static figure. Tyre pressure, ambient temp, quality of fuel all alter the figure.

Epic meltdown ITT.

[BROCKYB8]

ok ill tell u why, ive been ripped off with workshops, ive paid heaps of $$$ to them only to find out i was getting ripped and the DYNO figures were wrong, they sweet talk to u then they get the money and give u a sick ass dyno graph. and NO i dont drive a VL

Ok quick question. Has mr cve done this to you.
If he has id understand .
If he hasnt tho then i think your putting him in category with people done u wrong.

In hiboosts defence i know of a few ppl

Yeah but has he had the problems . He is the one making comment thats all i was asking

[Hiboost]

i know a few people are trying to attack paul's credability.

but... how many 8 second cars have any of you built?
how many 500rwkw cars have any of you built?

for that matter, how many turbo eseries have you built/tuned?

everyone seems to be questioning Hallam's dyno.
Yet based on all the figures being spread around on it, its inconclusive if its high/low

is this Question to me?
what type of car was this 8sec
am once i get the converter back im going to push mine to 600RWK+

ive built a few, including my own engine
im not questioning Hallams dyno im questioning the operator of the DYNO

[Dansedgli]

Imagine how locked this thread would be if this was AFF and CVE was a sponsor. So much loss of enterntainment.

Boosted ftw.

[OED666]

dyno figures are as creditable as politicians... how often do you drive at full noise anyway.. (actually, I probably go above 5500rpm at least once each drive)

remember kids, area under the curve, like gozza's latest tune is where its at... plus it better pull a good skid!

[ebturb]

Horror stories are the dirty secret of the internet.

1 good tune = 11ty posts.

1 bad tune = nothing said.

as alot of forums will not let you give bad remarks for sponsers ect (not havin shot at boosted am talkin about other forums)

[SnyperEB]

Hiboost are you on this forum to try and shoot everyone down?
Do you drive a VL by any chance?...It's got nothing to do with anything, just a question.

ok ill tell u why, ive been ripped off with workshops, ive paid heaps of $$$ to them only to find out i was getting ripped and the DYNO figures were wrong, they sweet talk to u then they get the money and give u a sick ass dyno graph. and NO i dont drive a VL

But what has that to do with CVE? I have never seen your car there nor on the dyno?

[BLC]

What MPH should a 230rwkw car run then?

Edit: My EA was sick but it never got dynoed

its should be on atleast 112mph if i can remember correctly

So by your reasoning my car is deficient in power, because I ran between 100-104mph.

You can't assign an accurate terminal speed to a specified power output without taking into account individual gearing, torque/power delivery, grip, windspeed, ambient temp, WEIGHT of the vehicle etc etc.

It's all bullshit.. I had fun and I was happy.

[ebturb]

Imagine how locked this thread would be if this was AFF and CVE was a sponsor. So much loss of enterntainment.

Boosted ftw.

spot on there

[Hiboost]

Hiboost are you on this forum to try and shoot everyone down?
Do you drive a VL by any chance?...It's got nothing to do with anything, just a question.

ok ill tell u why, ive been ripped off with workshops, ive paid heaps of $$$ to them only to find out i was getting ripped and the DYNO figures were wrong, they sweet talk to u then they get the money and give u a sick ass dyno graph. and NO i dont drive a VL

But what has that to do with CVE? I have never seen your car there nor on the dyno?

thats what CVE dose Best. der is no way ur car is making 220-230rwk im sorry to say that but thats the truth.

[BLC]

Horror stories are the dirty secret of the internet.

1 good tune = 11ty posts.

1 bad tune = nothing said.

as alot of forums will not let you give bad remarks for sponsers ect (not havin shot at boosted am talkin about other forums)

See Dan's recent post - this would have been locked at the first comment if it was AFF.

[Mr. CVE]

What did I miss ??
Sorry Dyno figure inflater sprung a leak ! and 'big bill' machine was low on batteries !

nah you can have this one. I know ARM79 said I will ALWAYS be the bigger man, I will let you have this one 'on the house'

So with this information in mind, do we assume that Shootout dynos and software attempt to provide a fwkw figure, rather than a rwkw figure???

Now, Paul, tell me how this differs from your memory? Because according to you, I backed out cos I was a chicken.

Nah that's about right.
I apologise if i implied that you 'chickened' out. that was not what i was trying to say. what i was trying to say a while back ( and i must admit i don't remember it all!) is it was tried and not completed. One thing that was not known at the time untill the night was Hallam ran shootout mode, where Ivan did not have that feature on his dyno.

Now I must admit you were much more focused on getting an honest answer about it all , and I believe that is why you contacted Dyno Dynamics.
Now I don't really care if everyone thinks the Hallam dyno reads high or low, I use it as a tool, not to brag.
For the record my personal cars have ALWAYS made higher numbers on other people's dynos !
There will always be dyno figure arguments, and I am not overly fussed about them, however I was upset over what seemed to be a personal attack.

[Dansedgli]

In the old days I remember 200rwkw in an E series use to be about right for 105mph. That was prior to the introduction of variable excuses.

[Steady]

but it should atleast RUN the MPH it should have. if its not setup for the track.

That day my car ran 4 completely different MPH figures on all four runs, ranging from 91(point something)MPH when I missed third, to 98(point something)MPH on a low 15 second run. My fastest run was only about 94 or so MPH.

How can there be so much fluctuation if the power of the car was the same each time??

I didn't make any mods in between to alter the power of my car, so by your logic it should have run the exact same MPH on EVERY single run right?

do more runs?
you are shitcanning something you've done 4 times.

the sprint, when it was running (shut the fukk up you kunts), did times ranging from 15.02 to 18 seconds, all around 90-92mph, except one with a missed gear.
60' ranged from 2.1 to 2.8

it made 130 on a dd in non shootout, and 151 on a shootout dd...

[Hiboost]

What MPH should a 230rwkw car run then?

Edit: My EA was sick but it never got dynoed

its should be on atleast 112mph if i can remember correctly

So by your reasoning my car is deficient in power, because I ran between 100-104mph.

You can't assign an accurate terminal speed to a specified power output without taking into account individual gearing, torque/power delivery, grip, windspeed, ambient temp, WEIGHT of the vehicle etc etc.

It's all bullshit.. I had fun and I was happy.

what ever u want to beleive is up to u, u want to get Lucked by someone who dose it best then be my Guest... and all ^^^^^^^ should not have a HUGE effect on the MPH.

[Thanatos]

yes its only a few MPH out from each.... like i said it should be close to the MPH it should run.

The fact that there is ANY variation indicates that there must be SOMETHING other than the power of the car that can affect the MPH. In my case I'll be the first to admit it was shitty driving and poor tyre choice on my part...

Imagine if I'd never run the 98+MPH pass... people would be saying that my car didn't have the power the dyno claimed because I'd only run a 94MPH. But clearly the car is capable of running a higher MPH than 94, it just didn't do it straight away and that was because of traction, slow gear changes, etc. etc. etc.

PERHAPS Shaun's car is capable of a higher MPH, but has yet to do it because of traction, slow changes, etc. etc. etc also??? PERHAPS the dyno is lying.
What I am saying is that no one is in a position to make that call yet....

At this point I would say that his MPH doesn't live up to his power output, that doesn't automatically mean the dyno is lying or Paul is lying, it COULD mean that the car isn't setup for the track or wasn't driven right or some other factor...

[Gozza]

Oh Yeah