Future 'P' Restrictions

[rhys]

No there are none that I know of coming into existence at all at this point. However this thread is to discuss what you think could possibly be done to save lives.

My girlfriends dad made a point of having some form of Log that would count the number of times a vehicle exceeded 115 KPH for example. 1 or 2 would be no problem as they could be simply overtaking.

Several points come into effect here though, 1. how could you do this with out the use of GPS tracking systems and 2. how do you discriminate against dyno runs, changed diff gears or no speed limit areas, private property?

Really I think there are a number of reasons why this wouldnt work without GPS tracking. But its so expensive. Maybe, just like an alcohol interlock system which is also very expensive, they could be installed to offenders who are caught 15 KPH over the limit. Rather than pay a fine they pay for installation of the unit which will monitor them for 12 months.

Or if there are too many of those, just drivers on good behavior (while on p's) or who have recently got their license back for speeding.

Its obvious that the progression of more and more powerful cars being developed coupled with them becoming increasingly cheaper and available to youth is causing some high speed crashes. As a very recent example, that crash in northern melbourne where 5 guys died and 1 seriously injured because a red plater lost control at speed in excess of 160kph on an 80 road. Needless to say if he was driving a ford laser he may have reached 100 kph by the same point and perhaps some or all could still be living today. (yes i realize that lasers dont have ABS or Air bags but that xr6 was split in half and those safety features didnt do jack at that velocity.)

So my point of this thread is, what do you think would be most effective at keeping young drivers from doing things such as the above?

The only ideas I dont want to hear are 'they will always do it' because if thats a fact then perhaps Vicroads have grounds to start profiling potential P platers by the cars they own, the way they dress and the way they talk. The second is 'advanced driving courses' my mate who crashed his hotted up VT Berlina the first day he got his license had a court order to do one of these. When he was back on the road with a good behavior bond a few weeks later after the course he thought he was Mark Skaife because he had passed that course. You would have thought he'd have a new respect for driving ... not so.

[falcon4life]

i dont know what vic rules are but here p's incl greens have power restrictions of 200kw any forced induction (exclusions apply to really really small engines and turbo diesels) and more than and including 8 cylinders

how does that appeal to you and yes some people still consider 200kw still extensively over powered

[falcon4life]

really sucks for p platers in the future who want a commodore with the sidi which makes 210 i lol at them

[67rce]

really sucks for p platers in the future who want a commodore with the sidi which makes 210 i lol at them

I "LOL" at current P-Platers with restrictions. Hell, when I was on my P's I had a 14sec ED XR6 and a 14sec AU XR8... Try doing that today!

[krisisdog]

I "LOL" at current P-Platers with restrictions. Hell, when I was on my P's I had a 14sec ED XR6 and a 14sec AU XR8... Try doing that today!

Not that hard.... manual i6 falcon with a decent cam, diff gears and a tune can hit 14s.... none of which would get you busted.. (barring extreme circumstances)
Could even get away with a modified EL intake to 3" in black (looks stock), and I havent heard of anyone getting busted for extractors/cat back yet with the new laws either. Extractors can be hidden mostly by even the stock shield.

Back on topic, harder tests, compulsory driving lessons or something.

[vegabass]

I know you don't want to hear this, but it all comes down to attitude, you gave the best example in regard to your mate crashing his VT being ordered by a court to do a driving course which in turn gives him a new found "stupidity confidence" and wham he is more likely to have a higher speed crash than before!

SR20's go pretty hard with little mods and will crack 200kmph with out a sweat, The only way I can think of reducing the toll is by putting a tax on the more powerful cars that fit in the already guide lines eg Falcon, commodore, SSS pulsars, etc so parents cant just give their kids they keys and say "drive safe"

When I say tax, I mean the car has to be registered as a P's compliant car and the cost is means tested say $1000 per year for a low income earner. This would encourage parents and new drivers to look a excels and lasers thus reducing the amount of potential terrorists with weapons of mass destruction.

[[Sterling]]

P plate laws are gay, I can't drive an EL5.0l coz it's an 8 but I can drive a 200kw aurion.

But im just another wreckless p plater anyway so who cares.

[bentls]

P plate laws are gay, I can't drive an EL5.0l coz it's an 8 but I can drive a 200kw aurion.

But im just another wreckless p plater anyway so who cares.

you cant even handle a slowba ahahaha

[LTDHO]

However this thread is to discuss what you think could possibly be done to save lives.

Simple answer is = Nothing.

It's not the cars. It's the mind set of driver and the government.

[[Sterling]]

P plate laws are gay, I can't drive an EL5.0l coz it's an 8 but I can drive a 200kw aurion.

But im just another wreckless p plater anyway so who cares.

you cant even handle a slowba ahahaha

Says the one who put his rexxy into a tree..

[Che16]

My father has a sidi ute i never got to drive it on my ls now im on my ps i cant drive it for at least 2 years that shit concidering my ef is faster.

I agree with ltdho its not the powerful cars that kill people

[rhys]

I see parallels here with the american argument about guns.

'Guns dont kill people, People kill people' -> 'Fast cars dont kill people, bad drivers kill people'

Yes I can see your point, but im sure you agree that giving highly inexperianced drivers the ABILITY to go faster than ever before will tempt them and to be honest having 1 passenger can be as bad as four and seeing a mate on the road can have that same 'look how fast i can go' effect.

Its established scientific fact that the male brain wont fully mature until the early 20's. If it weren't that the economy being so dependant on young workers making up a large part of its workforce and requiring personal transport im sure they would increase the age further.

Vegabass i like your idea of taxing cars that are likely to be hoon cars but there are a lot of young guys and girls who will buy an e-series because its cheap to run, can tow a trailer and runs on gas. With no intention of making it go fast, and then this forum is an exact reason it would fall into the tax category. And when you see red platers driving around in new VW/BMW/Mercedes their parents must be so rich that it would have to be a huge tax to stand in their way.

[Steady]

rhys375, your entire argument is based on the assumption that going 'faster' is what causes these accidents.
i'm drunk, with 6 people in my car, speeding, and i lose control and hit a tree.
what caused the accident?
would putting me in a slower car have stopped it?

i remember (other members will too LOL), at the illegals(RIP) a loooong time ago, some mad kunt in a early magna, pretty sure it was 4 cylinder.
anyway this kunt was running amok more than anyone else there, massive high speed handbrake fishies till the tyres were fukked, then he pulled up onto grass, jacked his car up, pulled another pair of rims out of the back and whacked them on, and continued.
i think he had a fair few sets of rims from memory LOL

conclusion, if you are gonna fukk up, you'll do it any car, you can do dumb shit in ANYTHING.
i've actually done more dumb shit in slower cars now i think about it hahaha.

[nothin suss]

conclusion, if you are gonna fukk up, you'll do it any car, you can do dumb shit in ANYTHING.
i've actually done more dumb shit in slower cars now i think about it hahaha.

Second that... 18-20 years of age when i was into 4cyls (Old Geminis & Corollas) it was mayhem.
Welded diffs, 13 inch tyres and we were basically the equivalent of what Ken Block is nowadays.

[Jake]

You can get most cars to 160km/h, my mate used to do it in his 1993 festiva. My other mate used to get his $400 pulsar (not the one with an SR20) to over 180.

All cars can go way over the speed limit.

I agree with what steady said, drunk driver caused that crash and also people do more stupid shit in a cheap slower car.

[bigdell]

i'm over hearing on the news about some P-plate crash p-plates crash they always have they always will there is no way of stopping this.
who hear when first learning to ride a bike fell off?
I would say almost everyone.
you cant legislate against stupidity you can only teach people how to drive and if this means making people do advanced driver training courses then i believe this is a good thing for the masses and i say fu(k the minority that think it turns them into racing car drivers.
there is a down side to this and it is what about the people who live 7 hours away from a major city what the fu(k are they going to do.
i'm also over being pulled over every week and being followed by the police when i haven't done any thing wrong it shits me up the wall and because most of the time its unmarked cars then unless you are looking in the right spot then you cant tell and this is just more revenue raising as its not going to slow you down.
and how about lets stop looking at new ways that we can book p-plates and such and start looking at fixing our roads as the majority of them are fu(king disgusting.

[falcon4life]

yer no matter how little kw your car has it can still go past the speed limit, its the invinicble feeling that p platers have when theyre driving.

ive done stupid shit too and only had my p's for 6 months but never 180 down a windy highway or handbrakes at 110 with fully to overloaded car

and the tax is a good idea to a certain extent it would be cheaper to have electronic speed limiters wired through cars

[falcon4life]

and one more thing that the gov doesnt do to PREVENT people being idiots is refuse p platers for going on to skid pans, here in qld the skidpan day i wasnt allowed cause i was on my p's HOW GAY IS THAT!!! its about learning control and you cant bloody do it because you well LEARNING TO DRIVE!! how ridiculous is it...

[bigdell]

yer no matter how little kw your car has it can still go past the speed limit, its the invinicble feeling that p platers have when theyre driving.

ive done stupid shit too and only had my p's for 6 months but never 180 down a windy highway or handbrakes at 110 with fully to overloaded car

and the tax is a good idea to a certain extent it would be cheaper to have electronic speed limiters wired through cars

one big ass mofo of a problem with this plan is that what if the car is carbie fed

[falcon4life]

yer no matter how little kw your car has it can still go past the speed limit, its the invinicble feeling that p platers have when theyre driving.

ive done stupid shit too and only had my p's for 6 months but never 180 down a windy highway or handbrakes at 110 with fully to overloaded car

and the tax is a good idea to a certain extent it would be cheaper to have electronic speed limiters wired through cars

one big ass mofo of a problem with this plan is that what if the car is carbie fed

hmmm never thought of that.... theres still some sort of limiter that can be installed... isnt there??? and with the limiter have it run off a seperate sensor instead of the speedo one cause idk about you but when its wet and up to 4th gear i get no traction the speedo is at 150+ but im crawling at about 20...

[[Sterling]]

Lol falcon4lyfe. You the reason I get **** over by police. Fkn hero in the wet thinking your a sickunit.

[krisisdog]

when its wet and up to 4th gear i get no traction the speedo is at 150+ but im crawling at about 20...

Umm... its called throttle control. Theres no way in hell you can do that accidentally. Thats just fucking dumb.

[falcon4life]

yes it is i dont do it anymore but when i first was on my p's i thought it was fun then it got old and now i skip gears in the wet and do as much as possible to keep traction

[Misterel]

nothing its a fucking wank. thou advanced driving courses should be mandatory.

[rhys]

electronic speedo controllers could never work because imagine if you got caught out overtaking on the wrong side of the road and your car stops at 120 kph ... no were to go. better to hit 145 kph for a short period and get back in than kill a family because you were on the wrong side of the road for a few seconds too long.

anyway, some of you are missing the point of my argument, no faster cars are not the ONLY reason that more cars are crashing but its one of them, and more and more seem to be happening.

and my question was what are your ideas on cutting down hoon behavior essentially, one aspect was just about powerful cars.

with so many people with lots experience about not only what hoon behavior occurs but WHY is occurs i thought there would be some great ideas come out. Im sure there still are...

[mad_keen]

Why the **** shud p-platers only hav restrictions? There are way worse drivers out there without p-plates. i find that most wanker drivers drive old little crappy cars or little utes, always right up your arse when your on the speed limit then they pass you flat out pumpin mass black smoke.

[bigdell]

you cant legislate against stupidity simple as that.
no matter how many laws there are people are going to find away around it.
rhys375 im guesting your not on your P's

[falcon4life]

Why the **** shud p-platers only hav restrictions? There are way worse drivers out there without p-plates. i find that most wanker drivers drive old little crappy cars or little utes, always right up your arse when your on the speed limit then they pass you flat out pumpin mass black smoke.

dont forget turbo ricers

[falcon4life]

you cant legislate against stupidity simple as that.
no matter how many laws there are people are going to find away around it.
rhys375 im guesting your not on your P's

thts for sure i was out today and saw one of the 40th aniversary gts with p's on them!? and im like wtf! most of the time i find that with enough more dollars than SENSE! you can buy your way around it with "work licenses"

[ed4ltr]

bit off topic about restricting cars P platers can have but..in my opinion its also a bad thing restricting the cars you can have in the sense of if it comes down to kids who are into fast cars and all that are restricted to say a 4cylinder for the duration of their P's,the day they get off their Ps they can go buy a hotted up 5L or turbo pushing 400+rwkw,theyre gunna have no idea how to handle power like that...it should go up in stages of what u can drive based on how long you've had your P's..

[falcon4life]

bit off topic about restricting cars P platers can have but..in my opinion its also a bad thing restricting the cars you can have in the sense of if it comes down to kids who are into fast cars and all that are restricted to say a 4cylinder for the duration of their P's,the day they get off their Ps they can go buy a hotted up 5L or turbo pushing 400+rwkw,theyre gunna have no idea how to handle power like that...it should go up in stages of what u can drive based on how long you've had your P's..

sorta the same as motorbikes?

[ed4ltr]

pretty much..

[skinart]

I got a good one for you, I am 32 and currently on green P's (long story), but I also am able to ride unrestricted motorcycles. I own a Kawasaki ZX12R that makes roughly 185hp (off the nitrous) and weighs around 200kg, so im allowed to ride a bike that has nearly 1hp per kg power to weight, but I cant drive a 250hp V8 that weighs 1.7 tonne. 1 machine does 9 second pass's, 1 does 15 second.

You know what will slow P plater's down? Getting older and growing up. Been there done that. (well we may not all grow up but we know where we can get away with shit better lol)

*EDIT* Crap I guess i was writing this novel when someone was already bringing up the motorcycle stuff.

[falcon4life]

hahahaha idk about NSW but here the 'P' restrictions dont apply to over the age of 25 (i think) ill get back to ya...

[skinart]

hahahaha idk about NSW but here the 'P' restrictions dont apply to over the age of 25 (i think) ill get back to ya...

Dear jesus i hope so, coz my falcon is almost on the raod and although I will still drive it, it would be nice to not be illegally driving it lol, im gunna check it out too, but im sure my licence saiz it on the back ....

[Bazza J]

ed4ltr, thats ezactly what me and my parents were talking about the other day, my brother in law who has been on his p's for 5 or so years has never driven a decently powered car, he had always been in a slow bmw and he drives that like he is king shit and invincible, a couple of times he almost had big acedents where he blamed the car, for example he was going around a corner and the power steering belt snaped and he mounted the gutter and almost collected 2 trees, and now because my sister has had a quik drive of my parents XR8 she wants to get one too, but both my parents and me said he will end up killing himself or someone else, in my opinion there should be stages where you can drive more powerfull cars, here in NSW all p platers are restricted to no turbos exept desiels and no V8s at all, but on your L's you can drive what ever you want because a full licence driver is sitting next to you, but how are they going to stop you putting your foot down a little too hard

[Bazza J]

skinart, check the back of your licence and it will say the conditions there, for the restrictions it will say, "provisional driver must not drive prohibited vehicles"
if it doesnt have that than you are legally alowed to drive any vehicle you like

[falcon4life]

here in qld on p's over 25 you just have to display the plates but no restrictions

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Li ... P1_over_25

nsw??????

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/get ... tions.html

[skinart]

lol no shit i didn't even know about this, i just thought coz I was on P's i would be like every other P plater, I think I can drive anything ... here is what is saiz on back of license.

While license is valid, you may drive vehicles of the classes below subject to conditions listed.

Class:
R= Motor Cycle
C= Vehicle seating up to 12 adults to 4.5 tonnes GVM Tractor Implement.

Conds: Note - Provisional restricted to zero BAC limit (wohha didn't know that one either, i always have a couple before riding home lol woops)

lol ty guys, you learnt me something tonight!

*EDIT* Thread high jack over, sorry

[falcon4life]

lol i think this thread should be renamed

"Clarification rules for p platers"