XH turbo ute, BF ECU BA motor tr6060

by **misk** » December 17th, 2013, 9:20 pm

so i had time to make up the adapter for the throttle body today.
its a bit dodgey but i didn't have much to work with lol. making circle holes smooth with a grinder is quite difficult!

it all fits but is very very close to the bonnet.
i have to make up a custom throttle cable for it then i can drive it.

by **Dansedgli** » December 17th, 2013, 9:37 pm

Is your adapter as big as the LS1 TB? It looks a whole lot smaller in the pics.

by **misk** » December 17th, 2013, 9:55 pm

yeah it is, 3", 75mm.
the opening for the manifold is around the same size and the manifold side flange is 75mm also.

you can see straight through the adapter in one of the pics.

i'll just say, i'm not doing this cause i want a million kw gain from it, i'm just curious to see the result with a big cam and exhaust.
so its a mild setup that could benefit in the upper RPM, but only one way to find out.

i kind figure considering the factory BA tb is 70mm and territory is supposed to be 72, 75mm isn't such a big jump for a 4l if you put it that way.
but it is around 10mm more than factory EA-AU.

by **ClassicAU** » December 18th, 2013, 7:46 am

I assume you will also be doing something about the airbox and snorkle as well in conjunction with this? Kinda makes it pointless with a stock airbox setup! Haha!

by **misk** » December 18th, 2013, 8:14 am : **icachn Likes this post**

oh ev!
i already have a 3" stainless intake and im in the process of making a 4" CAI

by **hokko** » December 18th, 2013, 8:50 am

Didn't some guy on ford mods with a nice ef or el that's close to 200rwkw na try a bigger throttle body and lost torque but gained like 1 kW above 5000rpm? I think he ended up taking it back and getting his money back. Sorry vague description I know but I read I years ago. Interested how u find it.

by **misk** » December 18th, 2013, 8:55 am

A few peopl keep harping on about that shit but if its not tuned to suit then it will be gay. It was like 150rwkw not 200 though.
One guy gained a tiny amount of power and torque through the rev range but best gain was high in the revs.

What I keep saying is if you look at it a ba falvon comes factory with a 70mm tb.
That's 2mm larger than thr bored tb. They must have done that for a reason.
The ls1 tb was closest I could get to 70mm.
I'm putting in a barra so wanted as closes to 70mm as possible.

by **ClassicAU** » December 18th, 2013, 9:01 am

Haha! Sorry bloke, must have missed that bit! Pod filter for epic over-run yo! :lol:

by **misk** » December 18th, 2013, 7:13 pm

had a look at the ED throttle cable today and drilled it out slightly and it fits the LS1 tb cruise mount perfectly and will fit where it needs to go with a custom bracket.

i'm just trying to chase down a TPS plug to suit then i can go ahead with it.
with the ISC i will screw some fittings into the bottom of the ISC so i can run hoses and will have to weld some fittings to the tb and mount the ISC somewhere neat. should be fine though.

pretty surprised that its all been pretty simple to piece together. always wondered why no one has ever tried more parts from other cars.

by **misk** » December 22nd, 2013, 5:56 pm

ughhhh
i did some datalogging and after a while i realised the RPM didnt quite match but did some tuning and raped the VE table lol.
fucked it good, then the data works program crashed so i lost any data i did get.

the TPS looks to be ok though, so ill try logging some other shit to see if i can get rid of this fkn gay lean out.

by **misk** » December 22nd, 2013, 5:58 pm

oh, i also put some more shims in and reset all the lash adjusters so now it doesn't rattle like its not put together properly haha. it also added some lift so the tune is out a fair bit now, runs quite a bit richer. so for the moment im just going to adjust the injector slope until i have time to data log and tune it correctly.

i got 60ks to 14l yesterday lol so ill be tuning it asap.

by **Chargd** » December 22nd, 2013, 6:47 pm

misk wrote:oh, i also put some more shims in and reset all the lash adjusters so now it doesn't rattle like its not put together properly haha. it also added some lift so the tune is out a fair bit now, runs quite a bit richer. so for the moment im just going to adjust the injector slope until i have time to data log and tune it correctly.

i got 60ks to 14l yesterday lol so ill be tuning it asap.

you must of been watching the fuel gauge dropping everytime you hit the accelerator lol

by **misk** » December 22nd, 2013, 6:58 pm

yeah thats basically how it happens haha.
it fkn drinks the fuel. might have to go back to standard if i cant tune it out. can't afford that when i need to buy the rings ns hit so i can get the barra motor in

by **private9** » December 23rd, 2013, 12:23 pm

Might have missed this, but NA or boosted barra build?

by **misk** » December 23rd, 2013, 12:46 pm

na for the moment lol
i'm looking to see if i can make the T5 handle 250rwkw easily without dieing, if i can ill do that while i build it and put this GT35 copy i have on it.

by **misk** » December 27th, 2013, 12:43 am

so i'm really really over this car drinking so much fuel lol
rather than go back to standard which was still quite bad i'm going to fit a barra motor next weekend and i'll put my BF2 pistons and rods into the other barra motor i have after a freshen it up and put that in when i want to get more power.

plan is to just get the barra motor running nice standard and then i'll start work on a J pipe and fit the gt35 copy i have.
not rushing shit, just gonna take it as it comes kinda thing.
already have a walbro pump in the tank and obviously will put return bung in the sump when i mod it to fit the K frame.

i asked on facebook but what are some mods i can do to the T5 to get it to handle 250-300wkw MAX, anything over 250 in the ute would be useless.
i have a second T5 so i figured i'd just do the input shaft, billet cluster support plate, billet keys and the shifter bushing.
i've only read a few pages here and there but this one seems to have a few upgrades, i'm not going to do gears so after that i really dont know what would suit out boxes or actually help with improving the strength where it needs it.
http://www.thegearbox.org/T5.html

also, the current gearbox has fucked syncros on first and second.
is it possible to just replace them while the box is out without replacing or fixing anything else?
broad question i know so i expect a broad answer lol.

by **SnipeZ** » December 27th, 2013, 6:24 am

Synchros will be an arse to change as you'll have to dismantle the main shaft.
Then when putting it back together you'll need to make sure all clearances are correct otherwise it will be just as bad if not worse.
If you talk to a transmission joint they may assemble the shaft for you for a cost of course.

Cheers

by **misk** » December 27th, 2013, 8:19 am

Yeah that's cool. I have access to the shit I'd need to do it so I understand ill be rebuilding it without rebuilding everything in it.

by **turbo_will** » December 29th, 2013, 6:53 pm

Good stuff man what ecu you going to use on the barra conversion?

by **misk** » December 29th, 2013, 7:12 pm : **galapogos01 Likes this post**

just the AU ECU dude, all i need to do is the sump mod, weld up the bolt holes on the engine mount brackets and re-weld so its 10mm lower (means i dont have to cut the bonnet webbing) and use the BA lower half BBM.

i'm hoping to get back to 500ks (at least!) to a tank, 250ks is just a little too low for my liking haha.
for the VCT i'm going to use a 12v PWM controller set so its close to 0* cam timing when the oil is hot but its obviously adjustable to so if its a massive pig to drive on the same setting with the oil cold i'll just adjust it when i need to.

by **misk** » January 3rd, 2014, 8:30 pm

picked up a T5 that doesn't crunch gears off snipez today, went through all the bits i have and have everything (accessories, engine mounts, hoses etc etc), just need to find a good motor lol.

found a few but fuckkk the guys are so hard to communicate with, so i'm still looking for one that is hassle free and close by.

one of the connector pins in the J3 chip snapped so that may be why the tune is all over the shop lately. gonna swap the connector with one from a dead chip.

i'm a little bit excited to have the barra in the ute lol. the big cam was fun but was a bitch to tune with shit just not going my way. the barra should make similar power standard so thats a win.

hopefully i'll be posting pics in here tomorrow and have some luck and success

by **easjake** » January 4th, 2014, 10:39 am

I woulda thought it would have been cheaper and less effort to get the hybrid motor dyno'd then a barra conversion?

by **misk** » January 4th, 2014, 11:50 am

sohc setup is really limited to 150-160rwkw without head work plus i don't have valve springs.
to me spending $200 to put a barra in is a good deal. it will make 135-145rwkw standard.

by **misk** » January 4th, 2014, 11:51 am

won't be doing it today anyway, apparently i don't work hard enough for free at my brothers shop so i can't use it anymore...
have to find someone that will help me weld the sump and use an engine crane :/

by **easjake** » January 4th, 2014, 4:54 pm

Yeah true, should have got a turbo motor!

by **misk** » January 4th, 2014, 5:51 pm

why?
i've got all the gear to turbo it, BA turbo motors are same strength as NA so no difference other than compression.

by **easjake** » January 4th, 2014, 7:52 pm

oh nah you'd buy the series 2 bf motor if you were going to buy a turbo motor but for 200$ instead of 3-4k you're laughing

by **Sunboost** » January 4th, 2014, 7:55 pm

What sort of cash are you looking to pay for a BA motor?

by **easjake** » January 4th, 2014, 8:05 pm

Yeah i meant 3-4k for a full bf 2 conversion

by **misk** » January 4th, 2014, 8:15 pm

i normally wouldn't pay over $150 for a long motor but i got a BA XR6 motor with 125,xxxks and both manifolds for $200.

by **Sunboost** » January 5th, 2014, 9:48 am

If you're missing any small bits and pieces to complete the conversion let me know, I have a lot lying around I could donate to the cause or beat wrecker prices on. Let me know.

by **misk** » January 5th, 2014, 11:10 am

cheers sunny!
i think i have everything covered.
going to use some sheet metal to make a small bracket to mount my EL AC compressor to the BA bracket and i have all other accessories, manifolds, water pipes etc etc.
i need to get some random bolts from the wreckers and just an upper thermostat housing plus fanbelt and some plugs.

by **misk** » January 6th, 2014, 11:00 pm

so picked up a BA XR6 engine with 125ks on it for $200 with both manifolds, coils, injectors and looms/sensors, missing accessories but has belt and idle pulleys and tensioner.

so it has everything i need except the aircon compressor lol i have everything else!

went to see kev who was an absolute champion and modded the sump, pulled my balancer off and welded up a bung in the sump for oil return and the holes in the engine mounts so i can drill new ones.

super super appreciative of it as i know he doesn't do much work for people anymore and my brothers shop isn't available to me anymore due to a family discrepancy about how hard i worked for free lol.

there is an oil leak out of the front main seal, so i'm doing the timing cover gasket as well as the front main.
everything else is mint and good to go.
the oil looked a bit black and there is some discoloring of the metal inside that would indicate that the engine is older but all the valves and ports look brand new, so i think it is a low k motor.

with the sump mod, everyone that keeps saying it will foul on the oil pickup, please take the time to research what the inside of a BA sump looks like.
we compared it to an AU sump and the BA sump is slightly longer due to the timing case of the BA motor being that little bit thicker to allow for the cams etc.

now the oil pickup is at a similar height to the first section of the BA sump, as soon as the sump goes down past the first hump, you have free reign to do whatever you want, you could make it a complete square cut and you would be fine.

so that puts that to rest, finally.

now i'm putting nozzles for the injected gas setup in while i have the BBM off the car, if they protrude into the port i will hack them with my carbide burrs.
while i have the burrs out i'm going to modify and free up the BBM itself in a few key areas which i have had some help with so i'm by no means taking credit for this

that combined with the LS1 tb will really give a noticeable positive effect on throttle response and how hard and far the engine makes power.
only a small increase, but for some time and effort, its a good deal!

i'm going to disable the VCT phasers for now and lock the cams on a timing that i will decide once i read the thread on the AU barra where they have gone through a few different configurations, but i will prob just go as close to 0* as i can.
then when i have some more money i'll do the PWM controller.

i picked up a new gearbox so that is going in with the same clutch which is a heavy duty item and still does its job.

so, i'm hoping i will be able to pull my motor, swap a few bits and then build up the BA motor and fit it by say 7-8pm. i'm going to start at it around 9.30 after i go buy some bits i forgot.
i've done an engine swap in less time than that when the EB was turbo so i'm confident i can do it and show up at the mini meet with DOHC goodness

by **misk** » January 6th, 2014, 11:42 pm

forgot the pic of the sump

this was just after being cut, i'll put up more pics of shit tomorrow.

by **misk** » January 7th, 2014, 10:39 pm

so rather than rush things today i did shit properly.
cleaned everything real nice, fixed anything that was leaking.
at this point i only have the BA motor together with nothing bolted on it and the XH engine and box out and apart.

so tomorrow everything is ready to assemble and put back in.
i do have to fix a problem with the injector loom but thats a simple fix and have to modify the looms with some plug changes.

i painted the BBM black after porting and smoothing the inside. its crazy that more people don't do this! there is so many improvements that can be made...
its also cool comparing the BA+ bbm to the earlier models as the butterflies and runners are so much bigger not to mention the butterflies are oval, could upgrade an ealier series with some work.

just goes to show much more air is flowing through the later head combined with the bigger tb and DOHC setup.

i set the cams to 2.5* retarded which is as close to 0* as you can get, the next closest is 6* advanced, but seeing as i have a manual 2.5" retarded sounds fine to me for the moment.
i keep forgetting to call wade lol but i'll call them tomorrow and see how much they want for regrinds. the other option is to just weld the sprocket as its simple enough to do, i will most likely end up doing this with them set at 0* or whatever wade do their regrinds at.

by **misk** » January 8th, 2014, 9:33 pm

did get as much done today as i'd have liked, it takes me a while to get going after a big day like yesterday cause i can barely move until the pain killers kick in!

anyway, got the clutch on, accessories except aircon compressor on, degreased the entire engine bay and surrounds, made up the water pipe - not the best job but its solid and will do whats required.

gonna concentrate on doing the wiring and BBM etc first up tomorrow, really want to get it in and don.e
although one good thing, i discovered the balancer is a powerbond underdrive unit lol. so the $200 engineis worth more and more.
that means i'm a set of good extractors and a tune to suit away from170-180rwkw, apparently anyway

by **DJV8T5** » January 8th, 2014, 11:04 pm

finding bonuses is always a great feeling

by **Sunboost** » January 9th, 2014, 7:32 am

What are you going to do about not having an A/C comp?

by **misk** » January 9th, 2014, 12:46 pm

i'll have a go at making up a bracket, benj did it with an ef/el compressor and looks easy eanough.
i gave up yesterday and just wanted to get it in the car, i can at least do that shit while its in the bay.

by **misk** » January 10th, 2014, 1:42 am

finally got the engine and box in

its all bolted in, have to do tailshaft and connect all the lines and plugs etc.
i sorted out all the looms, i only needed to change 2 plugs, one for the cylinder head temp and one for the cam angle sensor, only because i had wired my cam angle sensor with no plug previously.
so its a really simple swap.

i made up a bracket for the air con compressor, really wasn't that hard in the end. i need to get a bolt from the wreckers to make it sit 100% square but until then it will work lol.

i didn't do the engine mounts re-drilled lower, i couldn't get my head around what i needed to do to make it sit lower lol ended up drilling holes that would make it sit higher!
anyway with it sitting in the bay it will help me figure out how much i need to lower it etc and changing engine mount brackets isn't the end of the world.

in this pic the engines sitting on the engine mount bolts so its sitting higher than it is now that its bolted in.
i'll take a few better pics tomorrow.

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