XH turbo ute, BF ECU BA motor tr6060

[orangeute338]

i do, what i'm saying is even in standard form i've never seen a falcon achieve 14.7:1 when cruising.

i find that hard to believe if the car is working properly and has no problems. the au i had it ran stoich in closed loop

[NUT347]

Every falcon I've put a wideband has never cruised at 14.7.

Always around low 14s. Why do you think fuel economy improves after a custom tune on most cars?

[misk]

the only thing that could be wrong is the ECU not getting the 02 feed and really, when tuning, it shouldn't be connected anyway.
regardless, as long as there isn't a vacuum leak, i don't see the problem in tuning around whatever issue there is.
i need to drive the car so i may as well make sure it runs right.

like i said, new plugs and leads and maybe coil tomorrow and i'll see if that makes a difference, i doubt it will be massive though.
apart from a few lean spots the car is running good, not powerful in the 40 degree heat but its smooth.

can only do so much at one time so i'll just keep touching up the tune.

[ed40]

good job on the install!

[misk]

thanks dude
i'm gonna spread it like aids haha.
thinking i might do dohc in the XG as well.

[NUT347]

Aren't the x series (excluding XH) a bit tricky with the sway bar?

[krisisdog]

thinking i might do dohc in the XG as well.

For sure!
I think the sway bar is the same issue as the k frame, just mod the sump and it clears. Alt hits the k frame and requires a little cut and shut though.

[orangeute338]

Every falcon I've put a wideband has never cruised at 14.7.

Always around low 14s. Why do you think fuel economy improves after a custom tune on most cars?

how old were the o2 sensors? are you sure it was in closed loop? what were the fuel trims? the afr will bounce either side of 14.7 in closed loop. low 14s is a bit different then 10s like misk reckons he is getting something is obviously wrong if thats the case in closed loop.

the only thing that could be wrong is the ECU not getting the 02 feed and really, when tuning, it shouldn't be connected anyway.

what makes you come to that conculsion? what you should do is leave the o2 sensor in which will target stoich in closed loop and then adjust your fuel trims untill they are zero. open loop is where you mostly tune which doesnt use the o2 sensor so having it connected doesnt affect anything. 02 sensor wont make the car in the 9-10s at wot.

i guess you dont have a scanner tho. i cant understand why you are having so much trouble, what was the afr in closed loop and open loop with the old motor with the stock au map?

when i put the barra in i fired it up and even with the turbo reg in first off the afr was around 14.7, open loop it struggled a bit with the 4bar reg but when i put the stock reg back in the afr was in the 12s at wot and ran fine. if its ilding in the 10s with the stock map you have a problem and you will be chasing you tail if you dont address the problem first.

how old are the injectors? how old is the battery? are you sure the fuel pressure is correct? i would put the au rail back in with the stock reg that you had on the other motor if you knew it ran fine and wasnt rich

are you sure your afr meter is any good? have you looked at the plugs are they black? if it was running in the 9s and you havnt cleaned the plugs it wont be helping either.

[misk]

lol im not having trouble ffs! who is having trouble in this thread?
why are we going on about something that has everything to do with nothing?

i dont care what happened when you fired your barra up.
this is whats happening with my setup.
if it was a straight swap into an AU, then i would be a bit more concerned.

i'll say it again, every single falcon motor i have put a wideband on has run rich as fark.
even the fact that the cam timing is 2.5* retarded, plus the fact that the cams are completely different to the AU cam.

can we fucking drop this already?
if you can tell me the problem i have, then i'll fix it. but there is no vacuum leak, therefor the only other thing that would have such a major impact on the tune is the cams and the different head.

[misk]

i'll also say this again, i will replace the ignition system first, then see what is happening.
right now i get spark breakdown easier than it should be happening, so that will have an impact on it.
but really, even running different bins for the same ECU will have an impact on the AFRs cause no two are exactly the same.

i would rather tune the car without the 02 hooked up to the ECU and get the maps correct.

tell me what other problems will cause the car to run so rich and i'll address it...

[orangeute338]

which prong did you cut off the cam?

hows the injectors how old?

what was the afr before you did the barra conversion? was it 9-10s at wot like you have with the barra? just changing the engine wont cause the afr to be in the 9-10s. if anything it would be leaner.

what does rich as fark mean? what afr at what condition?

you seemed to care a lot about my barra when you wanted to know how to do it? why be a smart arse about it now? im just trying help you sort it out.

[misk]

lol cause what you are saying has no relevance to my situation.
i cant remember what the standard tune was like, as soon as i bought the ute i started fucking with the tune and got it quite lean on the standard cam. i never did a full data log run though, just touching it up here and there.

before the barra i had a big cam in the au engine and it ran like ass until it was tuned.
no idea how old the injectors are, but everything ran ok before hand.
its really doing my head in that me tuning the ECU is a problem in this situation...

i now have the AFRs in the 13s at wot and around 14-15 at cruise.
so fucking relax ok?

edit, i did everything with the conversion correctly, the TDC prong is all thats left.
i dont even know why this has become an issue?
you can't expect every engine and every ECU file to work just like your setup did.
perhaps your setup had a perfectly working closed loop setup. to me closed loop isn't important! if i can get the AFRs correct without closed loop then whats the problem?

[misk]

look man i donmt mind that you're trying to help, but when i don't ask for help, it really shits me when people keep going on about something that i believe i have under control.

when and if i need help, i ask for it. whether people choose to respond and help me is up to then at that point, but please don't push and push a subject that i actually required help on.

like i said, if you think i have a problem with something, tell me what you think it is and i'll look into it, otherwise, lets just wait and see what happens when i do the things that i have planned.

[Pub247]

i think you need a new o2 sensor somethign wrong with it... widebands don't last forever especially when they're not near stoich...

[orangeute338]

all ive done is ask a few questions to try and understand what is happening then i can give some ideas what is wrong.

what was the afr before the conversion? have you checked the plugs to make sure you are actually rich on all cylinders? whats the plug gap?

i think you probably have wired the ecu wrong or a bad sensor or injector.

i would warm up the car, then clean all the plugs with a wire brush, put a stock au map in without the stock o2 sensor hooked up then start the car and let it idle for a min, check the afr. then pull the plugs and check them. thats the only way to know if you are even on all cylinders. i wouldnt be tuning anymore till you know that. you might think you are tuning around it but might just be leaning the rest out and still rich on one.

[misk]

the plugs are fine. i have checked them and cleaned them, they are all even.
there is literally no point comparing the AFR from anything prior to the barra.
the standard engine ran fine with the standard AU map. i cant remember the AFRs but they were within factory spec.
i didn't have the 02 hooked up at that stage so can't tell you if closed loop was working.

my wideband is a few years old but its prob seen no more than 10,000ks.

just relax guys, like i said, i will bring the ignition system up to par and go from there.

again, when i need help, i'll ask for it. this shits doing my fkn head in

[Pub247]

what plugs are you using? have you check the resistance on your leads??

[misk]

the plugs are what came with the engine, they're old and some are corroded.
leads are some i got from the wreckers.

again, tomorrow, i'm replacing the ignition system components because they are old

[misk]

look guys, there is no 'problem' to sort out.
i know what i'm doing and why i'm doing it, this means there is no problem.
i don't know how this problem came to be the focus of the thread?
i'm certainly not aware of any problem...

[orangeute338]

what cam prongs did you remove and which one did you leave?

[EBOOST]

Dude give up, he doesn't want your help.

Good job misk.

[misk]

lol
i told you, the TDC prong is the only one left on the cam.

[Pub247]

hahahaha i was just razzing you up seeing as you were getting narcy about everything else

[misk]

loll i thought you were asshole!
ahh well, lucky its just the internets

[orangeute338]

i'm getting afrs around 9-10:1 with a standard AU map man lol and thats with AU injectors.
idles at 22inHG at 9:1l

but theres no problem....this thread is hopeless

[misk]

ive told you man, tell me what this problem is?
if you tell me what to look at, i'll do it.

a standard AU will idle aanywhere around 11-12:1 from what i can see, maybe some magical falcons out there actually achieve stoich readings, but i've never seen one.

[NUT347]

Love how this orangeute dude compares every setup to another.

I agree a 9:1 idle is suss, but **** this cvnt can whinge.

[misk]

lol we shall see if plugs etc helps.
if it doesn't, i'm all ears people. tell me what this mystical problem is and i shall sleigh it like the evil beast it is!

[the sam]

Might have to take it to get tuned Misk, seeing as you can't do it yourself...
And you've never tuned a falcon before so...

Still can't believe how quick you got it dropped in and running...

[misk]

got new plugs and leads today. no chance i can afford a new coil considering how much the plugs are lol.
i'll grab another from the wreckers.
i'll put them in when its not so hot but the cars running mint anyway so not sure if there will be much improvement.

[the sam]

Had a chance to test the fuel consumption on it yet?

[misk]

i dont have a trip meter on it, but i put in 50l yesterday and it used a bit of fuel until i trimmed the maps a bit more and it seems to be steady. i can't trust my fuel gauge though lol it does some whack shit.

i'll try wire up a trip meter in the next fuel days or use my data logger to log fuel use, i'm interested myself.
it will be better than i was getting with the cam, thats for sure! i'd hope to get around 400-500ks to a tank.

i'm also getting my injectors cleaned in the next week or two bye cve, so that should help also.

[the sam]

Yeh, i've seen some excellent results from replacing/cleaning injectors, even if they 'seemed' fine.

I would think 500km to a tank is easily achievable on a well tuned stock barra, especially in something as light as the xh.

I'd use your datalogger (Techedge yeah?) for fuel consumption checking as i always had problems with 100% accuracy of the trip meter. It was always out by about 30-50km to a tank, so i was never really able to get a good reading unless i filled from empty and drained to empty again and did the math.

You must be loving the stock power of the barra compared to **** all (in comparison) from the SOHC. Not to mention the **** arounds of having a large cam in the SOHC and the fuel use to boot.

[misk]

i'm much happier with how it runs. the big cam made slightly more power, but this has a wider power band and its a pleasure to drive.
i still haven't tweaked the tune to the point that its making max power, but its still quite nice to drive.

i have an innovate data logger, but yeah i'll use that.

[Pub247]

i get 500 in my ef if you cant get over 500 with a barra then theres something wrong considering your got 300kg less than a ba

[misk]

yeah i know, standard i got roughly 450ks to a tank if i was nice to it lol

[Parfrey]

Stock AU idling at 11-12:1?? From memory all the cars I've chucked my wideband on idled at 14.7 or so.
Also when I 'tuned' my EF, with the 02 sensors on it ran at ~14.7 in closed loop didn't really matter what I did.

Even if there is a problem with it and you can tune around it, doesn't mean its the right way to do it lol.

[Dansedgli]

+1. My AU went into stoich at idle with 42lb injectors, 19lb injectors, stock map, BA 2 bar and a mix of each.

If you plug the sensor in and it wont go into stoich at idle or cruise it's broken.

[EBOOST]

Thing is misk is saying he doesn't want the help which is why I said it.
Also I don't understand why everyone thinks dohc is going to be better on fuel?

My old au wagon (which was my dads car) used to get 600+k out of a tank with 370, 000k on it.
Most ba-bf's I know get 500-600k and are a similar weight car to each other au being maybe 100kg lighter.

Also au wagon with a camper and 5people and all our junk got 550+k going to bathurst, on a weigh bridge it was 3200kg without us in it.

[stevepet]

Good stuff another one hits the road