Overtightning and 110km/h

[Frost]

Well this happened last friday but ill post it up here.

6am my mate rings me iv lost a few wheel nuts wanna help me. So I drove 80km to see him on the side of the road.

Lead up story - He brought an EF factory manual with xr goodies for 2g, and went and got some 19s


And 600km later





So Kevin from Cat town at a tyre warehouse that I will not name said theres no possible way he, his stuff or his rattle gun could cause that. no one can snap wheel studs from overtightneing with a rattle gun.

The only time he has ever seen wheel studs snap are on VZ SS commodores. I questioned about the club sport range, and he said the wheel studs are stronger.

I will be going to visit this person with my mate on saturday, with the invoice for the tow truck i had to get, the wheel studs, my time, and the repair to the guard oh and an engineers report on how the wheel stud snapped and a backup mechanics report.

[stav50]

so how did they snap?? thats pretty fucked up

[Dumpsta]

Blow that...

[Steady]

Up till VE the commos did use pissy studs, around 3/8" or some shit from memory.
I had a conversation with a bloke from Simmons about it.
There seems to be some wear around the hub, were the rims even on properly?
Maybe the centrebore on the rims was too small.
Or he has quite possibley the sweetest rattle gun ever.
It's wouldn't be real easy to snap 1/2" studs from sheer twisting force.

[Dumpsta]

No way, I had wheelnut lock onto a stud and,well it wasnt coming off so we ended up snapping the wheelstud in the end but.. took some brute force.

[93edxr6]

pics of in side cent of the rim.

is the hole in the center bigger than the cent on the axle?

[93edxr6]

also mate did they change the wheel nuts when they put the rims on?

could of been the wrong ones (size,shape)

or the left the std ones on

[AaronEF8]

So Kevin from Cat town at a tyre warehouse that I will not name said theres no possible way he, his stuff or his rattle gun could cause that. no one can snap wheel studs from overtightneing with a rattle gun.

That's absolute bullshit. At my old work the dumbfucks snapped about 20 wheel studs using rattle guns, on a Hyundai Lantra (holy shit was that a nightmare), early 70's Dodge Phoenix, an AU S1, a couple of Commodores, a HZ, an old Troopy and some Kingswoods.

Also, I would have gone ballistic at him using a rattle gun to tighten wheel nuts on an alloy wheel, let alone a brand new one. Tyre fitters are often the dumbest fuckheads ever, and will generally talk all kinds of shit because they think they know everything because they work at a tyre shop.

Are Tyre Warehouse a franchise? Maybe some phone calls to the head office will help matters along.

It's wouldn't be real easy to snap 1/2" studs from sheer twisting force.

It isn't, and rattle guns don't put out *that* much torque, but it's all in the hammering action.

[edit] - I'm guessing the guy at the tyre shop ordered the wheels? It's his job to make sure the wheel/tyre suits the application.

[Rollin]

no one can snap wheel studs from overtightneing with a rattle gun.

The only time he has ever seen wheel studs snap are on VZ SS commodores. I questioned about the club sport range, and he said the wheel studs are stronger.

Bullshit x 11tymillion.

My rattle gun has 4 settings and is capable of snapping <VE wheel studs on all but the lowest setting. I snapped a 19mm caliper bolt on a VT once when it was new, didn't realise how much mabo it had :/

Also, HSV have exactly the same wheel studs as other commodores, that guy fails at life.

I reckon steady (and others) is on the money with the mis-matching center-bore of the wheel and axle. Either that or the nuts were loose.

Actually, those wheels aren't e-series offset are they? If he uses spacers I reckon the nuts holding the spacer to the axle came loose on their own - it's happened to a few QLDers with spacers+AU onwards wheels, but usually they notice a ticking noise from the rear before the whole thing parts company. The missmatching center bore theory applies to the spacers too.

[Steady]

I thought hub adaptor at first too, but the copies are coming in pre-AU offset.
He'd be retarded if he bought the AU-BA ones when the right offset is available.

Also I just got massive deja vu for some reason, has there been a thread like this before.

[bentls]

that is why i always torque with a torque stick/torque wrench whenever possible....
cos i got cordless snap on rattle gun...no feeling what so ever....


rattle rattle rattle snap.
http://motherofallcordlessimpactwrenches.com/

[Frost]

Ok there pre au offset.

The damage could be the 1km or so from where they broked to where he pulled up. We found 2 of the studs with the bolt in it.

Ill see saturday gunna go see the place on saturday with my mate and tell him to his face hes a dickhead.

Hes a wog, short by the sounds of it to. But he said that they dont need to check with a breaker bar or wheel brace. He said there rattle guns are dumbed down by 5 or some shit.

Anyway. I bent a 4 star wheel brace checking the other wheel nuts. Our real fucked rattle gun would not undo them, and this is a rattle gun that is 11yt years old. I got them undone with a 21 tube socket, larger breaker bar and a tube on the end and using my leg. This was the same for all 4 on each wheel, the lock nut, come undone with no effort at all.

[krisisdog]

I also bent a 4 star wheel brace a few weeks ago after I got my tyres swapped onto a different set of wheels.
I had my full bodyweight on one side, and was pulling up as hard as I could. This was on every single fkn wheel nut.
I ended up twisting the metal bar a full 360, then it broke.

Wooo Beaurepairs!

[Frost]

Im no professional at this shit.

But the first thing I learnt from the tyre show was, use the rattle gun till it just grabs then check it with the wheel brace/breaker bar

[TUFED6]

Surprise = 0

Tyre fitters are usually barely sentient mouth breathing dumbcnuts who don't know their arse from their elbow.

Was this warehouse more of a factory?

[Frost]

Yes it was a bit of a TTF

[Nikk O'lass]

So Kevin from Cat town at a tyre warehouse that I will not name said theres no possible way he, his stuff or his rattle gun could cause that. no one can snap wheel studs from overtightneing with a rattle gun.

So he admitted to using a rattle gun on the wheels? Tear up the kent, rattles guns should not be used on wheels, im sure some shops have a policy. Dumb shit tire people...

[Frost]

will see saturday. we want all 4 wheels replaced. and teh damage paid for. the tow truck, o well shit happens.

[EBOOST]

this happened to me when i first got my au as the guy i got it off odviously didnt look at the wheels with the wheelnuts done up all the way the wheel would move.
so doing 100km/h it moves a heap but i couldnt hear it and snapped 2 wheel studs then got home and all the nuts were loose as and the lock nuts was crakced at the end.
ahh well hopefully he will fix it and it'll be all sweet.
cheers josh.

[Frost]

it was fixed in albury. He was 500km from geelong 80km from albury. He wants money for what he paid for studs, labor, getting the guard repaired etc.

[AaronEF8]

This thread is fucked. I used to enjoy fitting tyres, except I had to work with some of the worst people as mentioned, and got grouped in the same class as them

Don't worry too much about what the dumbshit that fitted the wheels says when you go back in, just ring TTF HQ and tell them. They won't be impressed.

TTF Head Office Telephone: (03) 8398 9300

I would take the wheel brace/studs/wheels in, and throw them at his head if he doesn't play nice.


One time a guy at my old work didn't tighten the front wheel nuts on a genuine LC GTR he just finished restoring. Luckily the owner noticed the noise and stopped before a wheel came off. Still elongated all the holes on an original 13x6" GTR 'nibless' steel rim, value $750.

Simmons FR19 eat your heart out.

[nommic]

Haha I think I've spoken to that Kevin guy before from TTF in Geelong.

"Do you want this rim, or do you want to stand out from the crowd mate? What do you think of something like these?" (Kevin points at some hideous chrome abominations you see on half the Commodores in Geelong)

Ending up getting my new rims with tyres for $600 less than he was asking for the exact same thing.

[Bipolar]

Fucking shtknts. That's why I'll never go back to the Bob Jane near my place. Shit "wheel alignment" (no difference), let a rim fall over (didn't notice the damage 'til later), and that rim it took me and my bro half an hour to get 3 of the nuts loose with a large socket driver in the end of the wheel brace, and the other 2 nuts were finger tight.

Hope you get it sorted.

[t1MMy]

Wouldnt even bother with words. Walk in, throw a wrench at his head, kick the shit outta him and then demand the money back. That sorta shit just shouldnt happen.

[BLCKED]

This thread is fucked. I used to enjoy fitting tyres, except I had to work with some of the worst people as mentioned, and got grouped in the same class as them

Don't worry too much about what the dumbshit that fitted the wheels says when you go back in, just ring TTF HQ and tell them. They won't be impressed.

TTF Head Office Telephone: (03) 8398 9300

I would take the wheel brace/studs/wheels in, and throw them at his head if he doesn't play nice.


One time a guy at my old work didn't tighten the front wheel nuts on a genuine LC GTR he just finished restoring. Luckily the owner noticed the noise and stopped before a wheel came off. Still elongated all the holes on an original 13x6" GTR 'nibless' steel rim, value $750.

Simmons FR19 eat your heart out.

haha nice one aaron

drive your car through there on fire.

wheel joints shoudnt use rattle guns to tighten wheel nuts, they can easilly snap studs

i had 4 snap on me few weeks ago, i only had 4 wheels nuts on not 5 wich dosent help and i have a mini spool wich also can put alot of strain on them.

[Jake]

At work experience we used some thing which would look like an extension bar called 'aqua torque' or something like that... anyway what they said these bar's do is stop the nuts from over tightening by the bar flexing and some how stoping the rattle gun from going any tighter, they said over tightening could cause the wheel studs to sheer off (pretty sure it was mentioned at TAFE also)...


I'm no expert at any of this, but aqua torque's should of been used or a tension wrench from what i have been told...


EDIT: all these 'aqua torque' bars I have seen look like these;
http://imageserver.isnweb.com/AME1500-A.jpg

better pic;
http://www.grandinstrument.com/files/image/kact16.jpg

about 15-20cm long, replaces the socket...

[Bipolar]

Innnnnnnteresting. Never knew they existed.

[nothin suss]

Yeh accutorques are mint, come in a few different torque ratings. I had it drummed into me as an apprentice to use them and then confirm with a breaker bar.
We had a few incidences when the air compressor was dodgy and not giving the gun 100% pressure so i always check with a breaker bar regardless....
I see my local tyre place uses air operated ratchets with a torque wrench built in, similar to what a production line would use which is good. I still remove tyres and take them in the missus' car to get tyres changed, i dont trust anyone.

[bentls]

thats what i was talking about... ford use 135nm (100ft lbs) ones for all ba's


or at least we are meant to.. im about the only one in the workshop who does...

they have a built in flex into them so that once they they rattle to 135nm they just absorb the rattle from the gun and flex like mad... dumb **** hold em in the middle which makes them still over tighten.....

[five point slow]

Yeah rattle guns can snap wheel studs. If you're a retard who can't use a rattle gun for shit. Or maybe my rattle gun is just shit. I'd say a bit of both.

[Frost]

well its all sorted.

2 new rims, set of lock nuts, 4 new wheel nuts and $400. They fitted the tires my mate fitted the wheels.... using a breaker bar to check.

[4LEDboy]

great result mate!

[CaRtZ]

So Kevin from Cat town at a tyre warehouse that I will not name said theres no possible way he, his stuff or his rattle gun could cause that. no one can snap wheel studs from overtightneing with a rattle gun.

So he admitted to using a rattle gun on the wheels? Tear up the kent, rattles guns should not be used on wheels, im sure some shops have a policy. Dumb shit tire people...

impact guns are only meant to be used when undoing wheel nuts. they arent supposed to be used when tightening. if an impact gun is used it should always be checked by hand (wheel nuts = 1/2" breaker bar)

[TUFED6]

You hear some shocking stories about TTF.

A guy on NS.com left his Silvia track car at TTF to get a set of tyres put on, came back with the front bar smashed to bits sitting in the back seat.

Turns out someone took it for a spin and ditched it into a gutter. Ooops.

I wouldn't let my car out of sight if I had to go there.

[Rollin]

impact guns are only meant to be used when undoing wheel nuts. they arent supposed to be used when tightening. if an impact gun is used it should always be checked by hand (wheel nuts = 1/2" breaker bar)

That's all well and good, but do you have any idea how long it takes to do up 20 wheel nuts by hand? Multiply that by like 4 or 5 cars a day and you understand why rattle guns are awesome.

It's just that fucking idiots have never bothered to find out the recommended torque for the wheel nuts on any of the cars they work on, and at the same time have NFI how tight their gun actually goes on each of its settings.

[russ]

Mmm i used to be a shit kicker too no wonder why half the people are no hopers it's the most boring job in the world really. Old man owns a couple of Bob Jane franchises over here in perth. We just use the torque bars as mentioned above called Pro Torq. If i don't see a fitter using one or the torque wrench i slap em over the head lol. Just doing wheel alignments atm still boring tho. Its easy tho rollin we only have one 19mm one and thats for commodores 120nm pretty sure and two for falcon pre-ba was 115nm i think and ba onwards 135nm. Theres no reason to check them after using one of those as long as you've got enough pressure in your air line and gun on the right setting. Your going to get shocking storys about tyre places just gotta remember there mostly individually franchised and there are some good ones.

[CaRtZ]

impact guns are only meant to be used when undoing wheel nuts. they arent supposed to be used when tightening. if an impact gun is used it should always be checked by hand (wheel nuts = 1/2" breaker bar)

That's all well and good, but do you have any idea how long it takes to do up 20 wheel nuts by hand? Multiply that by like 4 or 5 cars a day and you understand why rattle guns are awesome.

It's just that fucking idiots have never bothered to find out the recommended torque for the wheel nuts on any of the cars they work on, and at the same time have NFI how tight their gun actually goes on each of its settings.

i said meant to be.... **** screwin up every one. start em on thier hreads and get the rattler on to em!