Grechies 1673 vs 977B Comparison Thread.

[Grechie]

Hey Guys

I thought id post a thread with my comparison of the 1673 vs 977B cam

Ok, first off a bit of history on my car....

Awhile back, with the 1673, I pulled 174rwkw with factory tickford ECU on hallam performances dyno thanks to paul at CVE (basically played with the dizzy a bit)

I soon then returned with changed diff gears + no clutch fan (added thermos), and only managed 165rwkw, however i was informed this is normal for the dyno to show less power as the gears are shorter...this was very hard to explain to other people, when they asked, howd you loose 10rwkw?, *sigh* either way, the power was doubted by many, but paul said, go race it...

I achieved 13.7 seconds at calder.

Returned to paul, and we fitted a J3 to which paul tuned up for me, i ended up gaining way more power from basically idle, all the way to redline, (trimmed a/f, more timing) however, this did not gain me more rwkw then 165.

Later on, for fun, a good friend of mine, Chris from Intech Motorsport, asked if i would like a power run on his dyno, for comparison and a bit of fun. I agreed, and the car punched out identical to hallams dyno, 165rwkw.

Now to show, how much timing helped the car, i recently went back before upgrading to the 977B, to see what the 1673 had with stock timing (10degrees BTDC and using factory ECU again)

The result was this (1673 stock timing vs advanced)



Now it was time for the 977B to be fitted. Once fitted, I went and got another dyno with stock timing on the 977b, the result was 154.7rwkw. So it really didnt get me any more RWKW, but it had a nicer curve then the 1673 (stock timing, 2 different cams)



Now once we pumped ~ 5 more degrees via distributor into the 977B, it awoke its potential, ill let the next picture speak for itself: (977b stock vs advanced timing)



Please note, the 555nm is not really 555nm, its ~528nm, the dyno is reading that from when chris started recording the run.

So to compare it to the 13.7 second "tune" this is what we get:



So it was good being able to run both cams, with base timing and then advanced, and get a true comparison between the two. I am just hoping now i can better my 13.7 time, remembering i am still running naturally aspirated !

Thanks Guys!!!

Big thanks to Paul @ CVE & Chris @ Intech Motorsport!

[Gozza]

will you be having a pipe sticking out your bonnet for the next time you bring on the drags?

[Grechie]

will you be having a pipe sticking out your bonnet for the next time you bring on the drags?

If by "pipe", you mean pod, then no, i wont be next time.

[misk]

great thread mate
doesnt look to be much difference in when the power starts to come on, but clearly got a boost in torque lol thats massive

how does it feel on the road?

[Grechie]

great thread mate
doesnt look to be much difference in when the power starts to come on, but clearly got a boost in torque lol thats massive

how does it feel on the road?

Feels good, revs out much quicker, gotta keep my eye on the rev limiter now. Seems to get there quicker

[galapogos01]

Great result! So has the chip been tuned to suit the new cam or are you just running the stock ECU now with some more timing?

[vegabass]

That is HUGE torque, 500nm and above is almost unbelievable. Hats off to you my friend I would suspect if you can get a good launch you should see 13.2 or better with that much on tap.

I guess time slips will complete the story.

[Grechie]

Great result! So has the chip been tuned to suit the new cam or are you just running the stock ECU now with some more timing?

thanks bud, nah i'm not running the j3 at the moment as its tuned to the 1673, just usin the factory tickford ecu with more timing in the dizzy:)

That is HUGE torque, 500nm and above is almost unbelievable. Hats off to you my friend I would suspect if you can get a good launch you should see 13.2 or better with that much on tap.

I guess time slips will complete the story.

thanks vegabass, i have some fat Mickey Thompson semi slick 275s to slap on when i go back, just hoping i dont break anything from launch

[SnyperEB]

Good read Grech!!

[rhys]

let me know when your going to the strip, I wanna come and watch this shiz go down. What is the current fastest NA Falcon down the strip? Jim mock ran a 13.13 in a NA auto.

[galapogos01]

Do you have any charts showing AFRs with the new cam? I would guess that again as last time you may gain economy/midrange with a tune but the top end will be the same. Looking at the first chart with the old cam the top end WOT AFRs are reasonable (mid rpm a bit rich). You may find the bigger cam is worse in the mid/low rpm range due to less vacuum.

Also, do you know how much timing you're running (both on the dizzy plus measured at WOT)? 24rwkw increase through timing is huge! Can't argue with the results, just curious as to what worked for your engine. For me I could not run more than around 30deg (which, by my guess, is actually pretty close to where you are now).

[BROCKYB8]

let me know when your going to the strip, I wanna come and watch this shiz go down. What is the current fastest NA Falcon down the strip? Jim mock ran a 13.13 in a NA auto.

PLease note that was fully stripped out race car.
That thing had nothng left in it . no interior or anything
Everything lightened. -Race seat
Fuel tank removed - smaller lighter tank.

[Grechie]

let me know when your going to the strip, I wanna come and watch this shiz go down. What is the current fastest NA Falcon down the strip? Jim mock ran a 13.13 in a NA auto.

13.3 i believe it was, totally gutted car too

Do you have any charts showing AFRs with the new cam? I would guess that again as last time you may gain economy/midrange with a tune but the top end will be the same. Looking at the first chart with the old cam the top end WOT AFRs are reasonable (mid rpm a bit rich). You may find the bigger cam is worse in the mid/low rpm range due to less vacuum.

Also, do you know how much timing you're running (both on the dizzy plus measured at WOT)? 24rwkw increase through timing is huge! Can't argue with the results, just curious as to what worked for your engine. For me I could not run more than around 30deg (which, by my guess, is actually pretty close to where you are now).

ill get the A/F for you, from what i remember, it was 12.5 through the midrange, so it might not need a J3 tune...

Also i think ~5 degrees is in it, chris ran it, it made 154 rwkw stock timing on the 977b, he then put 2 degrees into the dizzy and it made 163rwkw, put another 2 into it, and it made 174rwkw, then added 1 more degree and it made 176rwkw, so we could see it reaching its peak, so he didnt bother going any more till it ping'd.

[rhys]

yeh he ran 13.3 in a manual and 13.13 in an auto. Dunno if it was the same car.

its on his website

http://www.jimmockmotorsport.com/

[krisisdog]

Nice increase in power all round.
Whats it like below whats on the graph? from like 1000 to 2500 now that its tuned? In the stock timing graph the 1673 has a bit more by the looks of things.

[Grechie]

Nice increase in power all round.
Whats it like below whats on the graph? from like 1000 to 2500 now that its tuned? In the stock timing graph the 1673 has a bit more by the looks of things.

yea i just noticed that, well to be honest, going by feel, i dont know if its any better or worse.

[gthofan]

Good stuff Grech, always happy to help u out man Congrats!

[gthofan]

Nice increase in power all round.
Whats it like below whats on the graph? from like 1000 to 2500 now that its tuned? In the stock timing graph the 1673 has a bit more by the looks of things.

When he goes to race it, what happens below 2500 is sort of irrelevant........ as the car isnt gonna be revving under 3000 once he is going, up the top of the rev range is where its most important in my opinion.

[misk]

i think it was more of an observation
its good to see the differences the tune made though

[Grechie]

Good stuff Grech, always happy to help u out man Congrats!

Ohh i almost forgot!, definatly a BIG THANKS to scotty here for grinding her up in less then 1 day!! top bloke right there!

[needfordspeed]

Good stuff man, very impressive result, a few of us should be going to calder on the 5th of march, if you don't go before then you should come!

[misk]

debut for the EA gilly?

[Mr_4.0]

i should definately try get that night off on the 5th and put mine down the 1/4 before it blows up lol

[needfordspeed]

debut for the EA gilly?

That's the plan.....if it's ready on time lol

[krisisdog]

Nice increase in power all round.
Whats it like below whats on the graph? from like 1000 to 2500 now that its tuned? In the stock timing graph the 1673 has a bit more by the looks of things.

When he goes to race it, what happens below 2500 is sort of irrelevant........ as the car isnt gonna be revving under 3000 once he is going, up the top of the rev range is where its most important in my opinion.

Okay, it was an observation like misk said. I do realise that most of the time big cams = no low down power, but after what Grech said about not being able to tell when driving the car is quite interesting, and seeing as I have a 1673 myself, if you lose no low end grunt with this cam and pick up massive midrange torque and top end power it'd be well worth my time looking into upgrading! I wasnt having a go at him at all, I'm very impressed with his results!

[misk]

it looks like after the J3 tune as applied the 977b is making slightly more power and torque in the lower revs, but hard to tell whats its doing before the graph

[Grechie]

yea im gonna have to make the 5th march day, hopefully its a good night:)

[BROCKYB8]

Well cant wait to see this on 5th .
Hopefully mines up and running and ill prob put mine down the track too

[markTD]

Great result man.
Its a freak I tell ya but im probably not as surprised as others on here coz I see it alot and Scott can grind a good cam sometimes but he could have made yours a little lumpier as it sounds stockish still but its still well good.
He made mine in the EB lumpy as F@#K. I wonder if the lobe separation was what it should have been for a 1673 mixed combination lol
Got to be happy with that result though Grech