Future 'P' Restrictions

[rhys]

rhys375 im guesting your not on your P's

Perhaps falcon4life is right the thread should be renamed.

bigdell im about to enter my third years as a p'plater. but on the sly ... any P plate laws that come in only affect those who get their licence after a set date. Thats what happened with turbo/v8 rules and thats what happened with red/green p's. To be honest i couldnt give a **** if all new P platers had to drive fukin smart cars.

its kind of unfortunate though, I was expecting some of the more senior members to come in with interesting points. Being around on the forum so long they usually do pick up, collate and then tweek information to create new / well thought out information.

and the point about the powerful motorbike vs restricted car isnt really an example of stupid regulations, its an example of a government loop hole. And I assume you have your full motorbike license, hence the fact your not restricted to a 250cc bike.

I think all-in-all we can agree on this point:

-There are multiple reasons p platers make up a huge amount of crashes relative to their numbers. All these factors may intrude on one another i.e a guy with a fast car may never crash, same guy with that same car with mates watching or in the wet loses control and hits a tree. it was not the fast car alone that caused this crash, it was the combination of either showing off in a fast car or not anticipating the wet. The car cannot be blamed for being too powerful but similarly the mates cannot be blamed for watching. That leaves the driver, but remove the fast car, maybe he cant break traction and just goes around the courner. remove the mates, he doesnt try to show off, goes home and has a snack before bed. Same with the wet.

I know there are several times for myself when if the road was wet, or even damp id be minus a car right now. (only have 3rd party) Ive been lucky and as a result of my luck ive learnt some valuable lessons. Im sure im not the only one with hairy experiences.

[krisisdog]

I know there are several times for myself when if the road was wet, or even damp id be minus a car right now. (only have 3rd party) Ive been lucky and as a result of my luck ive learnt some valuable lessons. Im sure im not the only one with hairy experiences.

I can relate to that one haha, the one and only time I've actually lost control of my car and been unable to catch it was in the wet at night, babying it around a left hand corner, road had multiple pot hole fixes as well as built in water run off 'lumps' on the side. Anyway, back to 3rd, slowed for the corner, turned in, back end hit one of the 11ty bumps and spat it, did 2 360's with me going lock to lock trying to catch it which was no use as I was just aquaplaning around n around. Ended up in my lane still, although now stalled and facing the gutter (1x360, 1x270?). Took about 30 seconds to start to the bitch haha.
This was off my P's though ( by around 8 months), and with me being cautious....

[falcon4life]

i second that rhys375 i only been on p's for 6 months and done some scary shit that made me think twice now i pay closer attention to EVERYTHING!

[[Sterling]]

I know there are several times for myself when if the road was wet, or even damp id be minus a car right now. (only have 3rd party) Ive been lucky and as a result of my luck ive learnt some valuable lessons. Im sure im not the only one with hairy experiences.

I can relate to that one haha, the one and only time I've actually lost control of my car and been unable to catch it was in the wet at night, babying it around a left hand corner, road had multiple pot hole fixes as well as built in water run off 'lumps' on the side. Anyway, back to 3rd, slowed for the corner, turned in, back end hit one of the 11ty bumps and spat it, did 2 360's with me going lock to lock trying to catch it which was no use as I was just aquaplaning around n around. Ended up in my lane still, although now stalled and facing the gutter (1x360, 1x270?). Took about 30 seconds to start to the bitch haha.
This was off my P's though ( by around 8 months), and with me being cautious....

Cautious like your 200k run with an SS while drunk?


No ones perferct. We all do dumb shit everyday.

[rhys]

back end hit one of the 11ty bumps and spat it,

haha yeh in the RWD it just keeps swinging ay, can be too hard to catch it some times. by the time you get the wheels round you've missed your point.

has anyone ever lost their front wheels? Ive done it twice in my old eb. it was a really wet day coming down a hill to a 90 degree bend on the brakes went to turn and just continued straight up onto the kerb lol. it was lucky it was one of those curvey gutters otherwise it would have done damage to my sideways wheel. It was the quietest crash no-one ever heard (although i didnt actually hit anything, wasnt going fast so i went like a meter onto the grass). the worst part was it was near a school and I got some dirty looks from mums while reverseing back, but most people didnt even notice lol. The other time, same situation, but with a round-a-bout late at night.

[falcon4life]

haha yeh in the RWD it just keeps swinging ay, can be too hard to catch it some times. by the time you get the wheels round you've missed your point.

has anyone ever lost their front wheels? Ive done it twice in my old eb. it was a really wet day coming down a hill to a 90 degree bend on the brakes went to turn and just continued straight up onto the kerb lol. it was lucky it was one of those curvey gutters otherwise it would have done damage to my sideways wheel. It was the quietest crash no-one ever heard (although i didnt actually hit anything, wasnt going fast so i went like a meter onto the grass). the worst part was it was near a school and I got some dirty looks from mums while reverseing back, but most people didnt even notice lol. The other time, same situation, but with a round-a-bout late at night.

ive never lost fronts in wet i slow down alot smoother and slower and dont jerk the front tyres around but the back dances in the wet depending on my mood (same for everyone else) let it be pissed off or calm changes the way i drive severly i can go from taking of nice and fast in the wet if im calm, to not giving a shit and punching it too hard for the weather and ending up in 3rd before i decide i got too much wheel spin

[krisisdog]

Cautious like your 200k run with an SS while drunk?


No ones perferct. We all do dumb shit everyday.

pwnd. TBH I got smashed after that incident, back at home.... though I had been drinking prior, I would have been under the limit.

But the point of my little tale just prior was that I dont think there could have been anything done to stop me spinning, and possibly creating an accident, bar taking the corner at walking pace... I took the corner below what you would consider safe for the conditions and still found my self in shit, meaning that regardless of driving training and restrictions there will be accidents because of both human error and the absolutely shithouse quality of our roads.. Take the Pacific hwy for example, or any rural road with a 100k limit, all thats separating your vehicle from and oncoming vehicle is a strip of white paint!

[[Sterling]]

Damn thought you'd bite

Police would see it as you had bald rear tyres and wernt drivin to coditions if you had of crashed.

[falcon4life]

police consider 2 things, p plates and amount of cylinders... oh make it 3 and zorst sound if they dont like it then you get fu*ked up, 'bald' tyres to them is anything NOT brand new

[Shredder_LTD]

I had a similar experience in my LTD, i was coming into a roundabout in the wet turning right and only doing maybe 20km/h, as i turned my front wheels completely lost traction and started under steering towards the kerb. when this happened i knew that if i hit the brakes i'd just continue to understeer and surely be up for at least a new LCA so instead i put my foot down and brought the back of the car around to compensate and basically slid the car through the roundabout. the point of my story is that if me and my mates werent thrashing around sliding cars in dirt paddocks when we first got our licences i never would have known how to handle understeer, wouldn't have learnt about throttle control and would have had no hope in hell of controlling a LWB tank like the LTD when something like that goes wrong. You cant blame the cars, you cant blame lack of experience, you cant blame peer pressure at the end of the day you can only blame lack of common sense on the drivers part and unfortunatly there's no way to prevent stupid people driving cars.

[[Sterling]]

police consider 2 things, p plates and amount of cylinders... oh make it 3 and zorst sound if they dont like it then you get fu*ked up, 'bald' tyres to them is anything NOT brand new

My exhaust sounds like shit, yet I once got complimented on it by an officer.(gave it a boot full across a set of lights, they thought it was turbo but they were very wrong)
You theory is flawed.

[krisisdog]

Damn thought you'd bite

Police would see it as you had bald rear tyres and wernt drivin to coditions if you had of crashed.

Haha too good for you Kest
Yeh, I would have been 100% at fault had anything happened. Not much you can do sometimes eh.

falcon4life, I was still on Ps for a fair while when my car had a cam, extractors, exhaust which isnt exactly quiet with 1 box, lowered, rims... No cops gave a **** even when fining me for speeding... and like Kester I've even been complimented by police when going through RBTs on the exhaust note... Now that it's been sprayed (off my P's) I've had a Senior Constable compliment me on it

[[Sterling]]

Last time that happened to me i just did the trusty " If in doubt, power out"

[Shredder_LTD]

Last time that happened to me i just did the trusty " If in doubt, power out"

LOL doesn't always work tho...

[falcon4life]

police consider 2 things, p plates and amount of cylinders... oh make it 3 and zorst sound if they dont like it then you get fu*ked up, 'bald' tyres to them is anything NOT brand new

My exhaust sounds like shit, yet I once got complimented on it by an officer.(gave it a boot full across a set of lights, they thought it was turbo but they were very wrong)
You theory is flawed.

yes it is but as you said they complimented you, mine sounds like its supercharged at times but i tend to back right off and 1500 shifts when cops are visible

Damn thought you'd bite

Police would see it as you had bald rear tyres and wernt drivin to coditions if you had of crashed.

Haha too good for you Kest
Yeh, I would have been 100% at fault had anything happened. Not much you can do sometimes eh.

falcon4life, I was still on Ps for a fair while when my car had a cam, extractors, exhaust which isnt exactly quiet with 1 box, lowered, rims... No cops gave a **** even when fining me for speeding... and like Kester I've even been complimented by police when going through RBTs on the exhaust note... Now that it's been sprayed (off my P's) I've had a Senior Constable compliment me on it

i got cam extraxtors and zorts lowered and i havent been pulled over SURPRISINGLY!!! not to mention flames up the front but i think they look for semi sleep cars more than ones trying to advertise the done up fact like say p plater in a commo on its guts with stock look and a bit of an exhaust on it they will jump at

but some idiot people i used to work with tried telling me my car was supercharged cause it sounded like it

[falcon4life]

Last time that happened to me i just did the trusty " If in doubt, power out"

LOL doesn't always work tho...

didnt work for me

[Gozza]

If in doubt power out method, can potentially fvck your ass worse than hitting the anchors. Ill just hit the picks and hold on

[SVT8]

Make the actual p plater test harder or bring in a new system for obtaining and holding your licence. This will separate SOME of the mature ppl who get behind a wheel apart from all the bogans and sick **** who get in there car. Coppers catergorise any one with a bodykit, or exhaust, or lowered, or rims as hoons (or try to and you get alot of shit off them). Any dumb **** can pass a 20min driving test, the proccess needs to be more grueling and challenging. dumb asses will fail a harder test and complain the system is bs and the smarter more mature ppl wont (hopefully). Then we will start to see a rise of push bikes deaths beacuse of all the drunk pedaling and hooning occuring by people.....

[falcon4life]

i reckon part of the p plate test should be skidpan time, what do other people think?

[Shredder_LTD]

i reckon part of the p plate test should be skidpan time, what do other people think?

Agreed

[rhys]

i reckon part of the p plate test should be skidpan time, what do other people think?

i believe it is in finland....

they wet it down and slide around on it lol

[pr1tch]

thers no point making the ps test harder because thats the time wen u are consentrating on it and been driving properly for 2 years they should do another one wen u go from red top green ps coz i kno my drivings got a lot worse since i got mine

[Michael (HYPOEB)]

I realy need to get myself a daily!
The cops realy seem to be cracking down on p plate drivers in vic!
I dont think they will realy change to much,Boys will be boys but when you get people doing stupid speeds in 60 zones 80 zones ect ect there just plane dickheads,leave it for the track..but there will always be dickheads around..you cant stop that.

[[Sterling]]

In Germany they force you to go on the autobahn and flatten it.
Best drivers= Germans/Japanese.

[falcon4life]

In Germany they force you to go on the autobahn and flatten it.
Best drivers= Germans/Japanese.

+ 1 here and skidpan lessons and time till an expert says you are safe with the car incase of control loss in the wet at least

[rhys]

In Germany they force you to go on the autobahn and flatten it.
Best drivers= Germans/Japanese.

Japenese??? not so sure about that.

well top gear reckons that finland has the best drivers. anyone remember the episode 'if you want to win, hire a fin!'

per capita they have the best track record in the world for racing. I think they start at around 12 tho

Personally I believe the best drivers in the world are the ones that can drive at world class level ... but dont do it on public roads.

[Steady]

i reckon part of the p plate test should be skidpan time, what do other people think?

i believe it is in finland....

they wet it down and slide around on it lol

finland has ice, they have to learn that shit.
skidpan as a license test component is fukking stupid.

revolver with one round, take out the middle man.

[pHaT`eL]

A defensive driving course would be better than learning to do a 3-point turn though?

[EDXR61994]

i dont know what vic rules are but here p's incl greens have power restrictions of 200kw any forced induction (exclusions apply to really really small engines and turbo diesels) and more than and including 8 cylinders

how does that appeal to you and yes some people still consider 200kw still extensively over powered

well it is in a sense high ish powered......an ED XR6 pulls 161 KW which doesn't seem all that much but to a P-plate driver well gosh thats huge. I know people will say it doesn't help cause they will think their invincible but I feel that every driver who goes for their licence should do the theroy part for their Learners and do their driving test. But then also do a day of defensive driving tests. Confident drivers I feel do better then doubtful drivers. It gives them the skills to get outta of a shitty situation.....and I feel it will save lives.

thats my opinion anyway.

[bng]

However this thread is to discuss what you think could possibly be done to save lives.

Simple answer is = Nothing.

It's not the cars. It's the mind set of driver and the government.

Enough said

You could have the safest car in the world, 5 star crash rating etc, but have a drunk old guy in a valiant run a red and t-bone you at 100kms, not gona end well.
most of the time, it comes down to stupidity. a car + retard + mates + alcohol = not good. why wreck it for everyone? this world is going to the shit...

[fordnutter]

i'm over hearing on the news about some P-plate crash p-plates crash they always have they always will there is no way of stopping this.
who hear when first learning to ride a bike fell off?
I would say almost everyone.
you cant legislate against stupidity you can only teach people how to drive and if this means making people do advanced driver training courses then i believe this is a good thing for the masses and i say fu(k the minority that think it turns them into racing car drivers.
there is a down side to this and it is what about the people who live 7 hours away from a major city what the fu(k are they going to do.
i'm also over being pulled over every week and being followed by the police when i haven't done any thing wrong it shits me up the wall and because most of the time its unmarked cars then unless you are looking in the right spot then you cant tell and this is just more revenue raising as its not going to slow you down.
and how about lets stop looking at new ways that we can book p-plates and such and start looking at fixing our roads as the majority of them are fu(king disgusting.

Its not revenue raising if your doing the right thing. im sick of people bagging out the boys in blue for doing there job. And yes im a p-plater its annoying when you get pulled up but would you want them to just leave the bastard that has been drink driving to drive home and wrap themselves round a pole/tree or run into someone or something. and i have to ask you do u slow down when u see a marked car and be a moron when theres not? they are unmarked for a reason to catch people doing the wrong thing when they are unaware of police presence. im also sick of red p-platers with modified cars no modifications means no modifcations. thats my pov anyway

[nothin suss]

I personally thin skidpan component of a test would encourage most 18yo males to push themselves harder on the road (they will be Ken Block after 4 hrs on the pan!). Chicks and nerds driving Hyundais would probably learn something and benefit from it tho.
Best course i ever done was a Bosch ABS/Traction control course. Obviously only applicable if your personal car has the feature.

[WILLEBII]

i really think the idea with stepping up the aloud power of a car each year would be best.
i am on the 4 year p-plate and just graduated to greens. the car ive owned the whole time is a ford eb series 2. i drove that around pretty much stock, except for a manual conversion, for around 8 months and really got to know the car and what it was capable of. Then i turbocharged it and went from 135rwkw to 180rwkw then to 235rwkw and i havent had any close calls with it at all.... i think the worst thing a p-plater could do is have some 4cylinder bit of slow shit and as soon as they get on their full licence, buy a supercharged v8 with 400rwkw or somthing.. thats when theyll put their foot down and not have a clue what their in for.
just my 2 cents

[rhys]

thats a good idea actually, starting off with say 100 RWKW and gradually getting more and more so its not a surprise when when you go from a hyundai excel to an F6 or the like. The only problem is that it would be too expensive to continually keep changing the power of the cars.

[falcon4life]

I personally thin skidpan component of a test would encourage most 18yo males to push themselves harder on the road (they will be Ken Block after 4 hrs on the pan!). Chicks and nerds driving Hyundais would probably learn something and benefit from it tho.
Best course i ever done was a Bosch ABS/Traction control course. Obviously only applicable if your personal car has the feature.

that may be true but whats stopping them from doing it at the moment and having not 1 shred of knowledge, spining out boom side on into a tree... with skid pan knowledge that could be turned into a close call instead of a car right off

[rhys]

either way is dangerous, one session wont turn you into a pro drifter, so even with that lesson they probably couldnt save their life. and they would only be in that situation because they thought they could handle it in the first place.

the amount of time required to overcome reflexes is immense.

[falcon4life]

thats why they need same thing like the learner log book for the skid pan, and build an open rural street area that they can wet ect

[rhys]

one open rural street to wet for all L platers in victoria? what about insurance? who would pay to supervise? what if you didnt have a good enough car? what are the rules about run ups? how big will this 'street' be? how are you going to get thousands of drivers through this if they will need hours of one-on-one training and feedback?

The plan has the right idea, its just not feasible. The public who would pay via tax dont wanna see young males doing powerslides on their money. The government is run to public opinion and the older un-affected drivers would rather see all p platers wearing ankle braces to track speed rather than government sanctioned drift sessions.

[falcon4life]

but at least the idea is in the right spot, and it would be the same as driving lessons the learner pays to do it ect (to be supervised by a professional) or just goes there with parent o something