Custom lower control arms official EOI. Do it!!

by **knowsfords** » December 31st, 2010, 2:01 pm

superhuS! wrote:
knowsfords wrote:I was thinking today again (uh oh) I wonder what the legalities of a custom/remanufactured E-Series k-frame would be.
Rather than make the suspension fit the K-Frame... why not make the K-Frame fit the suspension.

Then you might adwell fit an AU k frame. Rollin is doing this for cunce like me who cbf with that shit

Indeed, however if you're talking about bolting in it in with hand tools like Rollin was hoping the control arms were going to be able to do, then an entire one piece steel k-frame might have to be that bolt in option.

by **superhuS!** » December 31st, 2010, 2:06 pm

knowsfords wrote:
superhuS! wrote:
knowsfords wrote:I was thinking today again (uh oh) I wonder what the legalities of a custom/remanufactured E-Series k-frame would be.
Rather than make the suspension fit the K-Frame... why not make the K-Frame fit the suspension.

Then you might adwell fit an AU k frame. Rollin is doing this for cunce like me who cbf with that shit

Indeed, however if you're talking about bolting in it in with hand tools like Rollin was hoping the control arms were going to be able to do, then an entire one piece steel k-frame might have to be that bolt in option.

But then essentially all of this will have go to waste, and then he would have spend another year or two and thousands of dollars more in R&D for a K-Frame. And in terms on manufacturing the K-frame? wouldn't you need a steel stamp of some sort? Making a stencil for this? its a huge cost.

by **knowsfords** » December 31st, 2010, 2:24 pm

superhuS! wrote:But then essentially all of this will have go to waste, and then he would have spend another year or two and thousands of dollars more in R&D for a K-Frame. And in terms on manufacturing the K-frame? wouldn't you need a steel stamp of some sort? Making a stencil for this? its a huge cost.

A k-frame could be welded from tubular steel to the correct dimensions, the only issue is the legalities of using the k-frame.

by **SNR** » December 31st, 2010, 5:04 pm

Which is an issue with these control arms also.

by **sdoylie** » January 17th, 2011, 4:33 pm

any progress rollin?

by **braad** » February 8th, 2011, 9:06 am

Any news Rollin?

by **Rollin** » February 8th, 2011, 3:44 pm

Negative....there is no way to do this economically really, and almost no way to do it legally :/

by **AaronEF8** » February 8th, 2011, 5:10 pm

**** man, sorry to hear. If I ever come across obscene amounts of money, I'll give you some for the money/effort you put in. :drinks2:

by **Nikk O'lass** » February 8th, 2011, 5:47 pm

Ah well

GT upgrade the next best option?

by **Rollin** » February 8th, 2011, 6:01 pm

It's all gay

I'm still sleeping on it, but the outlook is not good.

Maybe we should wait to see what CMYWPN builds and all buy his setup

Complete FG front end ftw....

by **EFFalcon** » February 8th, 2011, 6:12 pm

Why fg and not ba

by **AaronEF8** » February 8th, 2011, 9:22 pm

I've been thinking about this all day. Beats working. I can think of plenty of ideas, but none that I'd trust enough not to break and kill someone, and doesn't cost 11ty billion.

The tubular crossmember idea is something I didn't think of, and will warrant some more thought. To get something like that to be strong it needs to be well designed though, the best welding in the world won't do squat if the tubing isn't in the right place to support the loads.

Maybe we should wait to see what CMYWPN builds and all buy his setup

jksdfhjksdfhsdf
34376654564 CNC
54176574
17537156trrt3
problem solved

by **Rollin** » February 8th, 2011, 10:44 pm

EFFalcon wrote:Why fg and not ba

Check out an FG when you can, it's a brilliant setup. Virtual pivot, both lower arms are alloy as is the upright and the upper control arm, the K-frame is one piece and looks broadly similar to e-series. Would be FAR easier to make fit than AU/BF I reckon.

The downside is that they have a front rack, which requires a rear sump, which means that only an FG motor (or possibly BA/BF motor with appropriate sump) or maybe a dry-sumped SOHC will fit.

by **EFFalcon** » February 9th, 2011, 7:18 am

airbags won't fit an FG front end

by **AaronEF8** » February 9th, 2011, 8:23 am

Territories have the same chassis width as E-Series, I assume FG does too. You can unbolt the whole front end from the firewall in an FG IIRC. They are a pretty trick setup.

by **EFFalcon** » February 9th, 2011, 8:30 am

FG front end is similar to the terri isnt it?

by **TUFED6** » February 9th, 2011, 8:37 am

Thats pretty kool if you can unbolt the whole lot. Me like.

That transfer case doesn't look very man sized. Do they go bang with 400kw?

by **nothin suss** » February 9th, 2011, 9:02 am

EFFalcon wrote:FG front end is similar to the terri isnt it?

Nah they are a fair bit different. same idea. But more like an EF/EL.

by **AaronEF8** » February 9th, 2011, 9:04 am

Yeah FG is Territory front end, but all alloy. The front end unbolts so they can put all the stuff that sits against the firewall in easily on the production line.
Just like a HK Holden lol.

The transfer case uses a chain. Sounds dodgy as, apparently BMW X-series all use a similar setup.

by **EFFalcon** » February 9th, 2011, 9:07 am

by **nothin suss** » February 9th, 2011, 9:22 am

Thats it, i'll get a snap of a FG frame this arvo at work, got a few laying about. They are simple as.
4 M16 bolts. The trans and cooling pack has it's own mounts like normal.

by **AaronEF8** » February 9th, 2011, 9:43 am

Is that twin-turbo? Whats the go with the exhaust, looks like it's got 2 wastegate pipes joining it.

by **EFFalcon** » February 9th, 2011, 9:44 am

yeah, thats CAT600's FG on AFF.
TT

by **braad** » February 9th, 2011, 12:07 pm

Rollin wrote:Negative....there is no way to do this economically really, and almost no way to do it legally :/

Damn, sorry to hear mate! How about boosted buys a group lotto ticket and the winnings can go towards such R&D! And it could re-pay your investments

This FG K-frame stuff sounds good, it looks like a good brainstorming session

by **knowsfords** » February 9th, 2011, 9:05 pm

Wow, thats even better than AU-BF if the FG stuff fits with minor modification... tuned multilink suspension in an e-series would be brilliant.

by **rawan05** » February 10th, 2011, 4:06 am

check zaks xb coupe

http://www.zakphoto.com/xbcoupe/

was reading through and reminded me of this thread
similar problem - check under "The Front Suspension - IFS Modfication"

by **AaronEF8** » February 10th, 2011, 8:48 am

A McDonald Bros kit is hardly bolt-in, or cheap though. Street Machine reported the AU IRS would fit earlier Falcons in 1998.

As Rollin said earlier, you nead a rear sump to fir FG suspension. It might go in easily, but the motor won't go back in afterwards.

by **EFFalcon** » February 10th, 2011, 8:54 am

I think he's referring to the steering arm spacer

The BA Steering rack is matched to the IFS. A spacer of 70mm (machined by Sal) is added to one side to match the suspension pivot points to help eradicate bump steer.

by **AaronEF8** » February 10th, 2011, 9:34 am

Ah yeah.

http://www.zakphoto.com/xbcoupe/images/BA_Rack_01.jpg

This pic shows what the LCS/tie-rod connection needs to look like quite well.

Rollin, have you actually experienced much bump steer while driving? I imagine that it would be more of a problem in a standard height car, lowered cars have less travel, and I'm thinking anyone who wants this kit would already have lowered their car.

by **EFFalcon** » February 10th, 2011, 9:36 am

I think Rollin's car was pretty low when he tested it

by **Rollin** » February 10th, 2011, 11:28 pm

Aaron - yes, it was low. Not the best pic but it was pretty much tucking tyre when I first put it all in, then I raised it slightly to get a little suspension travel back:

The bump steer wasn't very noticable while driving, but was plainly obvious even moving the wheel through about 2" of travel. I was looking at the guidelines/requirements for steering/suspension mods the other day and one of the provisions is something like 'maintains original manufacturer levels of bump steer' - this is definitely WAY more than stock.

The spacer they are using would not help - it would only make the tie-rods shorter which would mean the bump steer would be worse.

I need a spacer that doesn't push the inner pivot out much/at all but actually raises the pivot point about 20mm, and I don't think there is enough space under there to do that.

by **Raptor** » February 14th, 2011, 3:20 pm

FG front suspension unit for your viewing pleasure :good:

by **nothin suss** » February 14th, 2011, 4:06 pm

Thats the pic i was trying to find...
Get your trigonometry on boys!

by **AaronEF8** » February 14th, 2011, 5:15 pm

It's not really trigonometry, it's just using a tape measure to see if all the mounting points are the same. Ford took care of the hard stuff

Looking at that pic, I'm going to assume that FG rails are set wider apart than an EA-BF. Either that, or they are some massively long wishbones. An FG workshop manual would be pretty handy.

Good to see they're finally using a decent power steering cooler!

by **TUFED6** » February 14th, 2011, 5:40 pm

Damn. I was thinking that the whole front rails unbolted the way a Camaro/HQ does. :-(

by **AaronEF8** » February 14th, 2011, 5:48 pm

Doesn't the whole body unbolt from the (4WD style) beam chassis on Camaros/HQ-etc? I've only read and seen one pic of the FG's having HK/T/G style front rails that bolt the firewall, so I don't understand it completely.

by **nothin suss** » February 14th, 2011, 6:02 pm

AaronEF8 wrote: I've only read and seen one pic of the FG's having HK/T/G style front rails that bolt the firewall, so I don't understand it completely.

I want to see that pic...

by **Nikk O'lass** » February 14th, 2011, 8:54 pm

The FG doesn't have bolt on rails, not many modern cars do. Only exotic type sports cars do.

Its still a monocouqe chassis, but all the mechanical componants are designed to be held in buy (in general) no more the a few bolts, everything is unitry.

Interestingly, the FG has a composite (plastic and metal) radiator support that is still welded on, instead of bolt on like most newer cars. This indicates the fact that the engine/front suspention are all installed from the bottom.

by **knowsfords** » February 19th, 2011, 8:45 pm

http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/bumpsteer.html

by **braad** » June 29th, 2011, 12:10 am

Bump

Did anyone check the FG front end out in any detail? Lots of people got excited

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