Gathering Information - '87 Thunberbird

[gumby23]

A bit of background on myself and the car; I am a chassis fabricator building Sprints and Midgets, both pavement and dirt. I have had many project cars and the 87-8 Thunderbirds have always been a staple of my interests. My current car is an 87 Turbocoupe that has been 'completed' since 08. It is powered by a 2.3L Turbo putting down 280rwhp and 340rwtq. After a few successful SCCA Solo seasons, it is getting to be about time to go thru the car, refresh and update some things.







I've got this notion in my head, and for the past week I have been scouring the 'net pulling as much info together as I can find. I have got a serious hard on for an inline six engine in my Tbird and had all but narrowed myself down to using the 4200 Atlas motor from a Trailblazer and adding some boost, but it hurts my insides to think of a Chevy motor in my Ford. After revisiting a few wicked YouTube videos of turbocharged Barra dyno pulls, I have concluded that there is no better option than to have an XR6T engine shipped halfway around the globe for my personal use!

As a fabber/welder, I have no issues getting the thing fitted in the bay. I have been working to determine what all parts I need to aquire in addition to the engine itself. Clearly, all the accessories, starter, wiring, PCM, and throttle pedal will need to come along. Also I have a very nice T5z trans(foxbody fitment) that I would like to use so much of my research thus far has been related to bellhousings. Sorting thru the different acronyms for the different generations of Falcon(EF, AU, BA, BF, FG) made my head spin at the start, but I think I am getting that sorted...I have learned that the T5 was used behind the BA which had me excited for a bolt together solution until I found that the BA bellhousing has the input shaft support integral like so

Continuing to dig, I see that the EF and AU Falcons also used the T5 and that the AU bellhousing is likely the best candidate for my situation(EF left, AU right)

One dimension I am very curious about is the register diameter for the bearing retainer in the AU bellhousing. The foxbody part uses a 4.91" OD retainer. While it is possible that I could machine the BA bellhousing to fit around the foxbody bearing retainer, if the AU bell is a better fit I will go that route. I can use either cable or hydraulic actuation as I have access to either pedal set for the Tbird. Do the 2 and 3-bolt starters interchange between AU and BA?

Getting to the nuts and bolts of fitting the foxbody T5 behind the Barra I have begun to find discrepancies for info related to input shaft length, spline count, and pilot shaft dimensions for the Falcon parts.

Looking at this chart from the Dellow catalog, it shows the same 10sp input for both the foxbody and Falcon units, but I have read in a few places the Falcon uses a 26sp input shaft. Also the chart shows the foxbody part with a .590" pilot but they are actually .668" unless it is a 4cyl box...None of this is a deal breaker as I can sort this stuff out as I go, but if anyone could confirm the dimensions of the BA Falcon T5 input shaft it would certainly be useful for me.


I am all ears here, and any info you can provide will be helpful. Even info on locating/shipping parts, which motors to stay away from, whatever. I am trying to sort this stuff thru the internet while you guys are surrounded by the parts daily!

[DJV8T5]

Firstly, welcome to boosted

Secondly, if you are planning to go for a BarraT, why not go for a T56 variant? Once you put some boost through the T5, they have a tendencies to break 3rd gear in stock form.

The Barra is a tough motor, and parts and information are readily available from many sources. I believe the I6 has 26 spline input, and the V8 has 10 spline. Different variants of different boxes may also differ on shaft splines.

Probably OED666 (Paul) would be the best person to ask about that, he knows a lot about the boxes.

AU/BA/BF/(FG?) in 5 speed manual use a Tremec T5Z box, where as E series Falcons (EA/EB/ED/EF/EL) use a BorgWarner T5 box. Similar boxes but still different at the same time

[gumby23]

Thanks.

The biggest pro to the T5z is that I already have it! It is a Tremec unit with upgraded internals and very low mileage. My biggest take away from the T56 is weight; they are friggin tanks. Also some more complicated bits for the conversion, and extra expense.
I have broken a couple T5 4cyl boxes behind my 2.3T. I know how that goes, however, the T5z will get me rolling OK. If she gets grumbly, my most likely replacement would be a TKO and staying with 5 gears.

[EFFalcon]

Welcome!

Pretty keen to see how you go with this, I've got an 83 Thunderbird which as you'd know is practically the same

[gumby23]

...I've got an 83 Thunderbird which as you'd know is practically the same

Very nice, a 4eye car! Yes, the 83-88 differences were mostly cosmetic. Were the Tbirds common in AUS?

[EFFalcon]

Not at all, i've seen/heard of about 10 or so over the years i've had mine.
Any that are here, are personal imports.

[gumby23]

Thought your screen name looked familiar; dug you up on FTBCF Your car is tits!

[EFFalcon]

Thanks

Have you looked into the sump side of fitting a Barra?

[gumby23]

Found a bit of info on that last night. Looks like custom mods to the pan, or the FG uses a rear sump.

[EFFalcon]

The BA/BF is Front Sumped, the FG Rear sumped.
I can't see the FG Rear sump fitting. maybe with a tubular k member?

I wonder if a front sump would fit with the sway bar relocated

[gumby23]

Front sump in front of the rack would really push the motor forward, I think.

My issue(s) with the FG option is how much newer they are(making them more expensive), and I have read of problems fitting the FG pan on the BA/BF block due to a mismatch in the shape of the rail at the rear dipstick location.
I do have a tubular K-member, and my current 2.3T is rear sump also. What about the rear sump pan makes you think It wouldn't fit?

[EFFalcon]

The I6 is a fairly long motor, and the rear sump would still come a fair way forward.


vs

[gumby23]

Thanks for the pic. Any chance you would know the distance from the rear edge of the pan to the drain plug? That would give me an idea how far forward the sump extends

With some more searching I am, at least for now, leaning toward starting with an FG engine. Even if I must mod the sump to clear, there should be less work involved vs. reworking the BA sump to fit the fox chassis Kmember. Also the FG intake manifold looks to be a better fit for a left hand drive layout, not to mention the various improved components that make their way into each newer version of any engine.